3 Hours of Money Making Advice You Needed To Know Yesterday

Summary

I spent valuable time with top business owners discussing strategies for making money.
One key takeaway is using free online groups to generate leads and convert them into customers.
Posting engaging content regularly on platforms like YouTube and Instagram can boost organic traffic.
Include links in bios/descriptions and use auto-messages for new group members to guide them through your offerings.
Offering something for free piques curiosity and naturally draws people to your community.
A great webinar or course can educate potential clients and prompt them to take action.
Maintaining value in your community is crucial; high engagement can drive sales conversion rates impressively.
Communicate using short, curious posts to keep engagement high.
A practical example: increasing a business owner’s revenue from $500 to $10,900 in one month using community strategies.
For services moving from free to paid, an onboarding call personalized to new users boosts conversion rates.
Even low-ticket offers can be sold effectively through efficient communication channels like DMs.
Focus on solving problems for your customer base to facilitate long-term success.
Simplify your offerings; avoid unnecessary complexity to improve customer retention.
Engage your community with fun topics and active participation.
Build relationships within your community; nurture a culture where members help each other.
Pricing strategies must balance conversion rates and churn impact.
Tailor your pricing based on client retention metrics, adapting based on feedback and performance.
Regularly analyze your pricing model to ensure profitability.
If overwhelmed, prioritize hiring individuals to take over less impactful tasks.
Focus on high ROI activities like creating content.
Delegate administrative and operational duties to free your time for critical business functions.
Maintain a balance between managing engagement and promotional activities to avoid burnout.
Introduce onboarding processes for new members to facilitate smoother transitions and higher engagement.
Tailor your community content to be informative and engaging without overwhelming your members.
Hiring and retaining top talent is critical; create a compelling vision to attract skilled individuals.
Trenches time spent on daily operations should be minimized by hiring generalists to cover minor tasks.
Use insights gained from customer interactions to guide your community management strategies.
Value feedback from key members and improve based on their insights to drive community growth.
Understand that scaling requires refining processes, constantly analyzing, and improving performance metrics.
Refunding and adjusting client expectations should be handled ethically to maintain trust and reputation.
Always prioritize solving your clients’ problems efficiently and effectively.
Use workshops and offline engagements to generate additional income and content for your community and marketing.

This summary captures the key actionable advice and personal lessons from the transcript, formulated as Alex Hormozi’s advice to readers at a 5th-grade reading level.

Video

How To Take Action

Implementing Strategies for Small Businesses, Entrepreneurs, and Personal Growth Seekers

I would suggest implementing a few high-value, low-cost strategies right away that can have a big impact on your business or personal development.

Leverage Free Online Groups and Social Media:

Start a free online community on platforms like Facebook or School. Drive traffic to it by promoting it in your content descriptions and bios on Instagram, YouTube, and other social media.
When members join, automate an introductory message that guides them through your core offerings.
Regularly post engaging content to keep your community active. For instance, share tips, ask questions, and post fun, relatable content like memes to spark discussions.

Group Onboarding:

Host a weekly group onboarding call for new members. This can be done through a Zoom call where you walk through the value of the community and how to get the most out of it. During this call, address their goals and challenges.
Use this call to upsell additional services naturally by highlighting how your premium offerings can help them achieve their objectives.

Content Creation and Engagement:

Spend dedicated chunks of time creating high-quality content, such as YouTube videos or blog posts. This should be your primary focus as content drives traffic and builds authority.
Use the mornings for deep work (content creation) and have all meetings or calls scheduled for the afternoons. This way, your creative output isn't disrupted.

Social Proof and Testimonials:

Record your onboarding and weekly calls, then clip the best parts to use as social proof in your marketing. Testimonial videos can significantly boost your credibility and conversion rates.

Simplify and Organize:

Avoid overwhelming your audience. Simplify your offerings and create a coherent sequence for them to follow in your community.
Create onboarding modules or a “start here” section with a few essential videos, keeping everything under an hour to ensure high consumption rates.

Nurture Your Community:

Encourage members to introduce themselves and share fun personal details, like their favorite books or movies, to foster connections.
Rotate pins and promote active members' posts to encourage more participation and create a vibrant community culture.

Utilize Onboarding Calls:

Implement auto DMs for immediate onboarding calls to newly joined members.
Focus these calls on understanding the new member’s goals and obstacles, and then guide them towards your premium offerings.

Hiring and Delegation:

Free up your time by hiring for roles that handle lower-impact tasks, like administrative duties and customer support. This allows you to focus on high-ROI activities like content creation and community engagement.
Initially, consider hiring enthusiastic fans from your community who are already engaged and can grow into larger roles.

Refine Your Pricing Strategy:

Regularly evaluate your pricing model based on conversion rates and customer feedback. Optimize for maximizing engagement and minimizing churn.

Use Feedback to Improve:

Constantly seek feedback from your key community members and adapt your strategies and content based on their insights to ensure you’re meeting their needs effectively.

Employing these strategies will drive engagement, streamline your efforts, and ideally result in increased loyalty and conversions in your community.

Quotes by Alex Hormozi

"How many do you know how many searches a day we get on school"

– Alex Hormozi

"Kind of gave up but he was making like $500 a month and we got him to $10,900 this month"

– Alex Hormozi

"Five places to put one link free Instagram bio free Group Facebook profile a pieces of content"

– Alex Hormozi

"Because a free community if you've got content and then you're promising a free community conversion rates are through the roow it's the most efficient mechanism to convert"

– Alex Hormozi

"The difference between value post and valuable post is that; the quote value posts are like here are six things"

– Alex Hormozi

Full Transcript

I just spent 8 hours with the top 10 business owners on school from last month sharing the money-making strategies that they used to win the school games here are the best ones the first thing we talked about affected every business in the room and yours which is how to get more leads and how to turn those into customers so it's using a free school group okay okay so essentially what we do is we create like content on YouTube um Instagram stories we're doing a bit of cold Outreach as well I that it didn't really help with this so you're doing content yeah but it was content is one of them you're doing Outreach to the people who follow and all that stuff on your content yeah and um also we were get like School organic traffic as well yeah starting to do that yeah what ranking are you ranking your pre group like you know you're in Discovery a no idea like we didn't optimize for that I am be worth looking at how many do you know how many searches a day we get on school I don't know a like yeah there there's a lot um but the pro honestly there's more visits to profiles that makes sense yeah and then they go profile and way more traffic goes through the profiles but so you have so you have content you have Outreach um we'll get you don't worry about it um we've content we have outreached what are you what what else are you doing yeah it's like the school organic so people just clicking my profile um and it also being other people's profiles as well you know they just join our curiosity so we then get those people they join the free school group as well so promote on like whatever platforms so how do they um so in in each of these so you make content and do you have it in like the description and do you integrate into the content like hey yeah so I just like leave the link in the description also I'd put in my Instagram bio so actually in YouTube videos where I just promoted my Instagram people would join the Instagram or follow me on Instagram and they just join the community I have curiosity even though I didn't promote it was just in the bio um with the Outreach we didn't promote the free group that's only like if people weren't interested which like okay we got this free group you might want to join it and then with school people just join naturally okay um I say Biol links plus description yeah okay got that and so and what's in there is that the the free group or the the paid group uh it's all free Okay so this this goes to the free group free score got it all right what else okay so when they join to get the auto DM which is the first line of our DM script okay and then we also in the classroom section so we have like a start here post that tells them to go to the classroom so DM as soon as they join the free school yeah okay yeah it's all on the free group got it okay and then we also have like a start here like pinned post that tells people to watch a course and there's a pinned course as well so that's in the classroom section and the course is essentially like a perfect webinar by Russell Brunson like we kind of break it into a course but it's like a perfect webinar yeah and it indoctrinates them to like book a call and then we just close them on the call and then we also did the DMS as well so you CTA to call and then what do you do to maintain the value in the community yeah so our community is actually it's extremely like inactive so I just put po like now and then but like it's like the members who are inactive are the ones buying though it's like cuz they they you have like zombies or like dead bodies there yeah so like the free community has I think it had like 400ish members 450 is and we got like 53 sales so it was very like high converting yeah yeah so it's pretty active but the community was dead but yeah people so you converted 14% of people who went to your free thing yeah ex into your got it and did you convert them into just a a higher ticket paid Community is that what it was yes it was $999 yeah got it that's why it's did by the way H because you just took the most engage people in mov but your I is engaged yeah that's completely accur basically you take your most engaged people and you take them out and put them somewhere else and like talk here inste of course it makes just total sense no it's like the people who are inactive were joining the the high because they're active there yeah yeah it's true that's actually true no that's exactly why yeah yeah and we also tested this with someone else as well so um he was going to enter the school games but he just kind of gave up but he was making like $500 a month and we got him to $10,900 this month so what the fun of was was Tik Tok and Instagram real short form content School community exact same process and basically 20 ex's income so literally just drawing I mean I I was saying this the other day cuz um somebody asked me this question I think on a Q&A call but it's like how do I convert people from free to paid and I still think that the single simplest way to do that is just like depending on the price point like if it's a low ticket paid then you just add the onboarding call to personalize their experience which then it's like hey what are your goals what are your obstacles right now you know what you might be really good fifth or whatever and then you can just sell straight into it um if it's high TI then you have your you know your vsl or your webinar or whatever that you incorporate into their onboarding process and allow them to self- select if it's a you know $5,000 or whatever you know Plus offer that's probably the most I can imagine that would be the most widely adopted method this one yeah yeah it's simple it's the most easy to understand I mean I almost didn't understand anything else that I heard but that yeah I've seen that be used over and over and over again like in a lot of slightly different ways but cuz a free community if you've got content and then you're promising a free community conversion rates are through the roow it's the most efficient mechanism to convert it's a lead magnet I mean fundamentally community and like on the free community as well you make like indoctrination Parts it's like you know how Russell Bruns talks about like the internal belief the external beliefs you you just basically shatter all their limiting beliefs you need to make a note to make a training on yeah I I'm going to simple I'm going to do a simple version of this which is just traffic free group yep free school it's the group funnel yeah free school we already have that training yeah but it's old and in the wrong place and it was for high ticket yeah and it's for yeah exactly exactly that works so well I it's probably the most common Ping On school is I think someone didn't an analysis that almost everyone ranking in Discovery and Lead boards has two groups one free one paid it's like the yeah the funnel it's the tactic and it works yeah so this like for everybody at home traffic free school DM to web plus Al basically you just drive everything there so your PIN post there you make content you soft toss it be like hey make sure you watch this the pitch in the classroom which kind of is disarming cuz you're like oh this isn't a webinar yeah it's it's a module and we've got some people to rather than making like one long video cuz this is why teach the students is to break it up into small videos and like distribute the webinar like that make it not look like yeah it's like there's four videos an introduction and then three core stories and the fifth video is I've got this thing for you and it puts everyone off guard as well cuz like I don't sign up to webinars anymore cuz like I'm in that space this just putts people off guard completely yeah every step of this is like extremely efficient cuz like I know if you have a link in BIO to a free group it absolutely crushes like those groups are the ones that at the top of Discovery cuz it's just so efficient we see 80% conversion rates on the pages like and so you get them in and then the autod DM sends like 100% of people and then you put them to that module and that module it starts the funnel and the funnel is like module one module two yeah and then you get them onto a call yeah which is probably going to be the most efficient method at converting free to paid yeah and some people they don't even book the course they watch the course they don't book the call but then when you DM them they're like oh yeah I've watched the course and then they do it so it's like so you DM again so basically after they watch it you follow up DM no so we just DM them anyway but some people just they watch the course and then book or they'll book later on they'll just come back to it and as long as you're making the post then they're like they find they go back to the course to get the link and then they book it yeah how much is the thing that you're selling them the paid group so it's $9.99 a month okay but this could work even for a cheaper thing like like you don't have to do high ticket you don't even you don't even have to do a call actually it could just be selling a $99 month thing over DMS and maybe even a call cuz for I'm just thinking for beginners you need cuz you don't have a ton of traffic and a ton of like like privileges to work with essentially you have to like get the most efficient conversion at every point right cuz you're looking to squeeze every last drop it's also I mean this is also from a from a technical complexity like this is pretty simple like click to free free to you make the five modules and then you talk to them and ask them but yeah this is the most effective it works amazingly well as well because especially with the short form content this is something I realized recently um so the guy was working with he had like 900 members he made one post and like 800 people joined we were like that's insane and of course we booked like hundreds of sales calls from that yeah it's monster this is very simple I like this a lot do this this is great really good the the thing that I I keep I keep this is me making a bet um is that I will bet that there's going to be a lot more ,000 a month type quote high ticket like shifting over um partially because of what you noticed which is if you can double or triple acquisition because it's LTV to CAC ratio and so you can still drive down CAC a lot to improve that ratio and so I think I mean the the space always has like a vibe like you have like the rank and rent which is kind of coming back right I think in the high ticket world there's a lot of a lot of people have like the pendulum swung a little bit this way and I think it's kind of coming back just a tiny bit um where people this is why like brand and content ahe and like value in advance is becoming more and more important because there's not a lot of trust and to be fair there was there will always be less and less trust over time um and the more mature the platforms get the less just eyeball Arbitrage exists like if you remember for that 5 Seconds that Clubhouse was a thing like I had I knew plenty of people who went on there and then we're doing like 100,000 a day on clubhouse because it was just it was just huge Arbitrage of eyeballs they're getting way more exposure than they normally would but as platforms kind of settle then it's like okay whose legit starts to rise and who makes the best content and things like that and so right now there's not like besid school there's not like a another platform that's really like emerging and so um it's my belief that that's why I trust that's why content stuff is so important is because it'll improve conversion across the funnel and I think that this whole um $1,000 a month like instead of being the $3,000 $4,000 a month I think a lot more people are willing to stomach the $999 a month um because they can see and as soon as we roll out more stuff with like reviews and things like that it'll just make it more and more trusted and I was talking um the other day about this but like if I could start gimmal launch all over again the probably the biggest thing that I would have done differently is I would have probably tried to make it like 10 grand a year and I would have put all my focus on how do I keep 80 90% of my customers renewing and um that would have been my main focus like I just want such a crazy valued price discrepancy that no one would leave um and they would refer more people etc etc because I would have probably acquired two three four times the customers but they also would have stuck uh longer because like over the last however many years we've done like 5,500 locations that have gone through gym launch and like if all 5,500 of those locations were still paying me I'd be richer than I am today um and so I I think about that a lot of like sure there's on one hit like when you don't know how to sell it's very exciting to like start Rising your price and be like oh my God I just sold 10,000 oh my God I sold 20,00 oh my God 100,000 like it gets really cool but once you learn how to acquire customers you then become completely obsessed on the other side which is oh shoot you realize the game like Sam and I have talked about this at length which is you don't want to keep having to go get customers I mean of course you have like you want be able to go get customers but not to have to go get customers and so like that's the big difference and so like when I look at businesses now I care almost exclusively about how much does this thing grow on Word of Mouth how much like what percentage of customers stay every year once they're like in and activated and whatnot because then it means that I get credit for customers I sold two years ago and so even if you sold 100 customers a year if you can keep all of them 10 years from now you're 10 times bigger and so the vast majority of like the internet marketing World focuses on growing by simply selling more units because they can't keep it body but the people who make the most money just don't lose customers but you have to like learn how to sell in order to get there but like this is kind of the evolution that happens and so pricing I like my thoughts on pricing has changed from the the old school Dan Kennedy model which is like say as high of a price as you can without cracking a smile um like i' swung back a little bit more to like well let's just make them smile at how Blown Away they are with the value that we have and then they're more likely to tell their friends more likely to stay longer and then like I wildly under underestimate how how much Word of Mouth affects these businesses like some of you guys have probably bought coaching courses and whatnot because a friend of yours was like I went through his YouTube training it was actually really good and then that guy doesn't know that you were told that he just sees an ad and he sees a conversion he's like oh my ads are killing it but it's not that it's cuz the product's really good and so like in the early days of gym launch we got 100 to one return on Advertising it wasn't because my ads were exceptional it's because everybody who was going through was just printing money and so like that's the that's the the big shift and those are the guys who make the most money there the ones who actually have a pretty good product in the second clip we talk about pricing and I talk about pricing a lot because pricing has the strongest lever on profit more than getting more customers more than even retaining them longer nailing pricing will make you more money than any other skill I have a question on the pricing because I did you know the what you said charge as high of a price and I tried to increase it but I didn't follow the principle of only increase the price after sufficiently increasing I notic the people are much more likely to ask for a refund at the higher price before it was 77 a month now it's 137 mhm should I suggest going down to 87 which is still bigger than the previous price or it's not a huge price change okay yeah just 77 to 137 is not like a m i mean it's a there's definitely going to be a jump in terms of conversion or like rather a drop in conversions um but the all all you're optimizing for is conversion rate times LTV that's like that's the whole equation so we talked about the four levers in this business right like you've got traffic you've got conversion you've got price and you've got churn like those are the four levers so like to grow the business you have to increase well decrease turn but increase the other three right and so if you know that let's say you've got 100 clicks to a page let's say at 77 you convert twice as many customers well it comes down to really just like what's your earning per eyeball and in the affiliate world it's called epcs which is earning per click and so you just literally want to make the most money per click over the longest period of time and so now if the 77 converts at twice the percentage of the 137 and they turn at half the rate then over when you do that hypothetical Max calculation you'll you'll be like you literally all of this is just math you just plot the see what it looks like see where it maxes out see what the other one maxes out at and you're like okay that's the price so how would I do that if I'm sending people straight from YouTube to about page on school you look at what it's at at 137 or whatever and then you know you what your metrics were at 77 mhm right and so you just compare what's the so here let's do the math so let's say you've got 77 bucks oops there we go that's a seven all right there we go uh and what was turn on 77 well I don't have the exact number so that's another issue obviously yeah yeah okay like let's just walk through it hypothetically months average would stay people okay so that would be 33% churn right yeah and so you divide that by I have bad numbers because I started it like few months ago you're fine don't wor about on 147 is probably like two months only okay cool all right so 137 divided 50% turn means you just double 137 right and so you've got uh what is that 200 and uh 74 is LTV here and then here you've got uh what's that divide times three uh1 what was that 241 thank you 24 241 41 31 Okay cool so LTV here is bigger than here but then the question comes into conversion right which happens before this so then you're like all right what percentage of clicks do I convert here what percentage of clicks do I convert here and so can someone do um uh 274 divid 231 for me 1.86 1.86 yeah right so if you can convert more than 20% more on this one than this one this makes you more money does that make sense yeah and how would I track that if I'm sending people from YouTube straight to school about you've got to just use some like fancy guess work but you should have got a feel of like when you were making a video a link how many kind of members joined yeah okay and do you know if there was a big drop or if it kind of stayed the same I mean there probably was a decrease but not you know more than 20% or what well 20% might be hard to feel yeah because it' be like one day you get four one day you get three like five like that might be tough to feel um but I know that that metric's coming out soon anyways for us so once as soon as that conversion metric's on there I've already looked at it by the way like L conversion rates across the platform there's a the biggest indicator is the price obviously yeah right yeah I mean some free groups convert it 80% um but the difference between you know something that's like 10 20 30 those things can convert like 5% but once you get a price that's like over 100 it drops significantly yeah yeah and so here we know what each of these is worth and so you're just thinking what percentage of people buy it and that's the conversion and so if 50% more people buy this then you're like okay well then 50% even I'm making 50% more sales at this price versus uh I mean this is just a classic like chart of pricing versus volume that's all it is I really want to make to make sure it makes sense though yeah okay this is how you figure out pricing and I would just encourage you guys to be willing to test like the um PC who who just sold profit well um they did this big meta study but basically uh the more frequently you analyze price the more profitable your company is just it's like a direct correlation so companies that never look at their price or never adjust their price are way less profitable than ones that look at it annually which are less profitable than the ones that look at quarterly so just be willing to test price I got some questions for you though like which one do you think is making you more money on your traffic cuz your traffic's probably remained somewhat a constant right well I'm not pushing as hard as during the school games you know because was selling every video and I don't want to do that for long-term brand so it's hard to compare but I would say it's more like the Optics of being less than 100 a month feels like different you know than over 100 a month so which one do you think was more efficient probably 77 because it's like I feel like the product has more more aligned with the value there your your audience is younger on G side no they not 25 to 60 well I'll tell you personally we had a portfolio company that we ran um this is like this you guys might find this really interesting hey guys if you want to be in this room it's actually free for all these people is they won the school games and so school is a community platform it helps you build a group and a community that you can monetize online or that you can build for free and so we give you the tools we give you the training and we give you the community so that you can actually recreate that and as of right now 54.1% of people who start a paid community on school make at least $1 and so I say that because the first dollar in business is the hardest one to make because there's so many skills that require to get there and we've been obsessing about this for the last 5 years to make it as easy as humanly possible if you want to start for free you can go check it out and if you want to ask me a question I onboard all the new customers every single Monday so sign up start for free and I'll see you next Monday it's school.com games so we ran uh we ran We R in a high ticket upsell and we tested 50k 35k 25k and 15K wildly different price points I'm just I love this [ __ ] um and so what's really interesting is that the conversion rate time basically the revenue we generated from all four of those was identical and so on one hand you might think oh I'd rather just have fewer customers at $50,000 but for me personally I would rather have more people that I can again what's my Valu price discrepancy as provided the cost of goods is not like you know like I don't want to eat into you know crazy margins or something but provided the margin on all you know all the the the services are still pretty good I would rather have four times the customers to then sell keep and then also have a crazy like in terms of Word of Mouth from those people saying that my thing is unbelievable that make sense do you know what I've noticed like high ticket you can like change your price and conversion doesn't move but with the lower ticket it really does yeah which I think it's because it's more intimate like when you buy something that's real high ticket you're it's small and you're talking to a human and everything but when it's lower ticket it it it does seem to make a big difference because I high take it fundamentally if you believe you're going to get this big expensive outcome then logically 25k and 35k like if you go and make a billion dollar business they're both worth it like right um it just like comes down to whether you can actually afford the you know the difference and so I think it becomes like a structural conversion difference where what I mean by that is like some people literally can't afford the difference between you know 15K versus 50k like there are just some people who just literally can't afford it even though they both might want to buy it um but yeah here you're you're selling in in a you're alone it's like you with the your finger over the button you're like I mean my fear is that if I decrease it to 87 I would piss off all the people that joined at 147 yeah so like how would I test the price then H well the worst case is they could cancel and come back not the end of the world because so just just for everybody here like just from a perspective um taking if you plan on having this business for a long time then it's not going to make any difference like you figuring out what the right price point is for your community is going to be the thing that matters most and so like you might lose a month like you're turning already at whatever 50% they're going to be gone in two months anyways yeah so like I'm just being like really real right so like you we want to tweak this stuff to get right High by the way yeah like that's way above the which do I aim for at this price point below 20% yeah okay like good is good is like in between 5 and 10 yeah like 20% is like average is yeah cuz I I actually analyzed yeah I actually put the whole platform's numbers into profit well oh sick yeah that took profit well for like 7 days to to process it and it almost broke it um cuz there's like 50 transactions a second almost um but it's like yeah the that's probably around the average what's interesting is it's coming down every month because I think people are learning more about what works and what doesn't work um but the good ones are sub 10 but so if you're 50 that price is too high I don't I don't have data to be honest yeah okay this it you can do it if you just if you have like 4 hours and some coffee yeah so go to your churned members and it'll click on their membership and it will tell you their LTV we calculate on a per member level so just go and fill out your own spreadsheet yeah um and you'll figure it out like it's the numbers are there that that's what I said you just have to use some some different methods yeah and for the like General churn should I just export like the list of all members and compare out like week to week or something no no you want to look at your churned members will tell you their LTV so you want to see all of your churn members and their ltvs and then look at the average LTV that's your LTV that from there you can reverse engineer your churn because LTV would be divided by your price that gives you your you can do the math yeah yeah yeah okay that ansers it yeah cool awesome well this is great I know that we yeah go for it so just going back to on pricing too and what you're saying with gym launch I I do believe I could sell what I've built for 30k like I believe I sell it for 30k whatever but I also do have a painting business now that's why is my main focus and I am also willing to sell that same thing for 97 so just to go this is what my advice to you uh would be because I understand your business outside of this business I think that I would try and I would want it to be just high high enough of a price that they care and so maybe make it 5,000 a year maybe 10,000 but the whole purpose is not to Makey I mean sure you'll make money doing that but the real money is that if you can get those people to then open your version of painting under your logo and basically you can consolidate and have them use your systems and whatnot then it's like they kind of basically become partners of yours as they open up locations underneath of your flag and if you have the capital then you can front I'm sure the capital's not too big for starting painting stuff I would I mean do you know I mean it's like 27 net right you can afford it um so like I would be like off front the capital you can get 20% and I'll give you a base and then I'll show you how to run the business or whatever and like you're going to be a co-owner like that's I think that might be the mega play for you and then you can still use that to have them have skin in the game and you take that community and skim from the top so it's like you let the like you don't need to take you don't need to bet on them you let them you hold tryouts you know and put the pull pull sticks in and just see who kills each other and wins the leader board and I'll bet you if your leaderboard was about who is the who's the next one who's going to be able to partner with you bet your leaderboard would go up take not cool so you got what you need to do have a question yeah you had that one form that one equation conversion rate times LTV was there like a equals to it conversion rate where yeah you wrote it on the I think you flipped it over on the other page oh traffic Trum bottom I don't believe that that's where it was but I don't know if you said the you finish the equation oh for uh the these guys at the top yeah I think we're just talking about that cost PR so this is price divided by turn equals LTV okay that's what this that's what this is and then traffic times conversion this is the other two of this is then you've got price as your levers and then you have uh turn so these are the four levers of the business that we're talking about so if you want to make more money in your community you either have to drive more traffic to it you have to convert a higher percentage of that traffic you have to price it as high as you can and you and this is all balanced with churn which is okay well I I can raise my price but does that also increase churn and by how much and so that's why we're find like it's balanced between these two and price also affects conversion so there's a bidirectional relation between churn price and conversion and then this is this is the machine right this is your business machine right this is the machine that we have at school this is what you drive into it which is the traffic so this is the effort that you guys are doing on a regular basis it's the inputs into the like this is the big black box of making money this is school and then this is what we're driving traffic whether it's Facebook ads or whether that's content or direct Outreach or whatever it is this then just flows into the machine you're looking for the maximum like yield yeah so like how much dollars per click any way right and all of these variables play into that and you're looking for like the most efficient way to turn the click into some money in yeah couldn't you just put that in school like this metric you know and just get that number so we see it cuz you have all the stats no which one well I mean like yeah I can calculate that it's like if we had that you know if you go into the dashboard you can see the Mr if we could see that right underneath or maybe like you know the churn so we can see it in real time cuz it's easy to see increases in Mr but like this takes more effort yeah that's a good point like I you yeah the next kind of metric we're rolling out is like the traffic and conversion stats that helps cuz now you can see your conversion annual clicks right and I already have that data and I've already looked at it that's why I had some insight and then we've already got the churn data too so I guess yeah that would be an interesting formula it would be like EPC earnings per click I think yeah that could be a cool thing to see and then yeah good idea in this next clip we talk about beating your competition by doing things differently than them and how to identify a great market and other great opportunities and how to approach them a way that other people aren't seeing if you're on school especially in like the last couple of months you probably noticed that there's a lot of really good value there but it's it was getting stuffy there wasn't a whole lot of like personability right or fun so to speak so it was an obvious Niche and um it kind of happened organically where uh the offer was solid funnel builder stuff like this different business model though instead of it being a high ticket all up at front and then he would give you the package and then [ __ ] off this one was hey Will work with you and you just give us a subscription so th000 Mr and is it 999 what's the price 999 Okay cool so that was the price and so we started with what you guys were talking about free and a high ticket so two groups two groups yeah okay great yeah this is yeah recurring theme but but it keeps going and something else I think so where was traffic coming from just school okay we to this day we've never made a single nothing not even social Instagram my friends don't know that this is going no one knows yeah you okay got it so traffic was going to free group right um yeah traffic was going to free okay however school games front page would bring people to paid so we had a link there that said here's the free okay cuz that's where a lot of people were coming so it's actually kind of like this yeah yeah yeah anybody a simpler one than this yeah I said I was answer your question upell like 15 people eight bought within the first hour okay and so everyone's like who the hell is this guy and then from that it sort of was a nice flywheel and the pre-sale you did inside of the free group uh yeah actually it was friends family members basically anybody that had something that we could offer was it a zoom like do like a zoom no it was like in person phone calls people in the world we knew people in the world get in the floor get in the pment okay so um that was what got it going yeah but then from that point on um what we were doing was sharing I Sam doesn't like this phrase but you know we'll have to come up with a different one A a valuable post something that had it in there I wouldn't call what you were doing a value post no this is really interesting though because I think this industry's gotten real weird with value posts you know what I mean it's like people posting value but no one cares yeah because it's not even value it's just some [ __ ] opinion or article and like what Goose did differently is he he made things fun and got other people to contribute on his post so his posts blew up way more than value posts there was like hundreds of comments and they were really fun and like alive and so he bought like personality fun in like I would say personality in fun posts and that those were like crushing a lot of people engaged and then a lot of people like who is the guy and they viewed his profile then they saw his stuff then he got on the leaderboards now he's got another thing feeding him and then he got on Discovery and now there's another thing so by making things fun and adding some personality and being interesting and not just trying to like post articles you everyone kind of started to know who he was and then that energy started going there and then it started looping on itself there was like a feedback loop it was really interesting to see that happen h yeah and it'll probably start happening more in the future the gift group is the the next one so we're starting to see this new pattern actually where funny things are working really well this guy made a group it's a pure joke yeah when you get to level 9 you get kicked out yeah it's it's really funny like see how see what that does to everyone and SEL and every all of these serious business owners with seven figure businesses are joining and just laughing yeah and posting funny [ __ ] and like I love that I think there's there's definitely something that we a topic we could talk about today about Community culture yeah cuz I think that's how you get retention and that's how you get raving fans as if it's there's a culture and a vibe to it um and that's starting to happen and work honestly more effective than the logic that I'm seeing really start to take off it's quite interesting that's probably how I Define a culture yeah entertainment business in other words too I think what goo is really great at is making POS are really engaging like I even like again plenty of seven figure business owners I just like like to make it f so that's like your thing that you brought it's like not a value posst just like a posst that drive engagement and to make people like collaborate which is huge yeah um there's a there's a a theory that I have behind it that actually is something that people can probably start to use cuz it's kind of I didn't realize it until I was looking in retrospect but it's something that I call um broccoli wrapped in bacon where it looks really stupid and fun so you're curious about it but by the time you're done reading you actually learn something so each one of my posts take like 45 minutes to an hour to make cuz sometimes I have the funny part or I have the the broccoli part but I have to come up with the other part and so what we started to find in this system was right after you got eyeballs and as long as you had a good offer you immediately could just start sharing all of your successes everything that worked everything that didn't work or even how you felt that day if it was somehow valuable but not a value post I suppose and uh the the engagement went through the roof and this is what it meant which might help a lot of people that are here is one of the reason we didn't go back and start offering up ads is because at least I was nervous a little bit about the dilution of the quality of the people cuz they were all coming from school and those people knew how School worked and were really [ __ ] engaged and so we have I don't know 600 members something like this but we're more engaged than groups with 10,000 members a lot of them and every time something goes off like let's say it's someone struggling with a I don't know a heartbreak of some kind a bunch of community members just swarm on this dude and help him out and it was that culture as Sam was talking about that we somehow stumbled into and realized oh okay this is this massive thing it's not just like kind of a niche it's totally a niche um addressing sort of the personability the things that you might need from a friend and then that was why people were signing up for everything else they just wanted to be able to do that and run their business in like a safe space so um there's something to be said I suppose about being able to uh reach out to the things that don't logically make sense and that was what we ended up doing there so as you said in conclusion the discovery ended up being uh that backbone where uh probably a lot of us should maybe lean on a little bit more if you can if you can get that slightly higher the number of people that are coming into school all the time is just rising and everyone's looking like if you've got one offer here you've got another one over there that you can just jump over the same person it's just a bunch of really high quality leads and people that are waiting to to jump onto those I may not have much for you to chew on there I just no that was fine much to share it's the first one we've seen that didn't really use external yeah yeah um mean I know Evin I mean she obviously did Drive outside traffic but she crushes internally as well because she she has truly valuable posts um and a lot of her posts like the differen is so for everybody at home uh I feel like the difference between the value post and the quote value post and valuable post is that the quote value posts are like here are six things to no one gives a [ __ ] right um the value bull posts are like I did work for you or I took risk for you or I spent money for you that you don't have to spend and so fundament it's a bargain on time or money and so like Evelyn's like hey I spent $25,000 on ads and these are the ads that I ran and this is what happened and people were like oh [ __ ] well great I don't have to do that and this worked for her like she gives her tldr at the end and you're like that was valuable yes if you can blend if you can get a blend of that and then people making like a parody video about the community like have you seen the ones people have made for school if you can get a good balance of that that I would say is like Perfection cuz you've got the value but you're also smiling and feel like a part of this group and then you they're like I can't believe I'm having fun and I'm talking to people that make millions of dollars if you get those two it's like it's experience and results so on this on the customer success side like in normal B2B businesses we talk about both it's like you can get someone results and there's also client experience which are just like the soft and the hard and believe it or not like client experience matters sometimes a lot more than even the results does um like if you have amazing results and a terrible experience the moment they can find somebody else who can get get them the result they will leave but if you have an amazing experience and like mediocre results they're like well I love these guys and they'll stay yeah so one of the the the tweaks that we ended up kind of noticing is that we on school is so great cuz Community we actually don't really have the post as a thing or what we do we really turn it back into them so the community is the community and we really highlight that versus being like the overlord being like here's what we give you guys it's like no more and more in the comments comments DM like that was the thing that really just gets super fan do you guys think I'm you guys GA engage a lot in your own Community right and I think that's like most people could do it like in terms of the people at home are like my my community is dead and it's cuz you're expecting like the community to do the work and in the beginning like you need to drum it up like you need to engage you need to be thoughtful about your responses to comments and things like that they are small things they're really nuanced um I mean School understands it really well because it it use the platform but like if you're making a post and you're not using a poll you're [ __ ] up there there's something that you can do that just adds a little bit of flavor to what you're doing um there's also like we were talking about earlier pinning to module like every little thing that school has if you if you're not using it you're kind of leaving money on the table because there's usually a lot of thought that's gone on behind the scenes for that thing and I'd even go as far as saying that you know we have this freet to- paid system but probably what's going to start emerging a lot more here is what we did where there was a lot of drop off where people wanted to hire us from the free but they didn't have a grand ready to go or they didn't have their offer ready to shoot so they would fall to a low ticket which is just like a white label GSL ghl but we ended up inverting it because people were like what the hell does this software do and you had to go and explain the whole damn thing instead we just sold the Mastermind uh later on and then gave them this as a gift like hey and you also have the software and then it just went through the roof where people just kept signing up so inevitably we had free low ticket High ticket and it's just been wonderful having that and it's just this flywheel where people Bounce Around within it and they of course that gift of the software that gives them the incentive to go up because they like I want you to just do this for me now I know it's here so so I guess they've got the extra piece on the end of that simple funnel they've got free low ticket and high ticket which it sounds like that's what everyone eventually wants to achieve from what we've heard at all of these events but just balancing the the traffic Source the free and the paid first is probably everyone's first step in this fourth clip we talk about something that I made tons of mistakes on early either you've got entrepreneurs who are really good at retaining customers and don't know how to get them or they're really good at marketing and sales and don't know how to keep them if you're one of those people who's really good at Marketing sales and doesn't know how to keep them this is all about making sure that they stay with you and I'll tell you now as an investor the number one thing that I look at in business is how many people from last year are still paying you it gets way easier to grow when you don't lose 100% of your customers every year that's a promise if we want to talk about engagement we did it I just spent weeks analyzing this and I what I found was honestly shocking like that's a hook yeah video ends so what's really interesting is classroom content doesn't really matter um first of all you do not need to make a monster course in fact that just overwhelms everyone right we have an hour hours is less than an hour right yeah anime shreds launch with no class um and no post more than one sentence some posts were just like six emojis and they had thousands of comments um so it's the things that really work I've seen in and that are very low E low effort too is you you get your community to share something about themselves right so the it the CU I've seen these posts that always rip really well like they get they get more comments than like a wellth thought out article post by the Creator who pinned it so that's like you know um one that always works is like what's your favorite book have you ever seen that one just keep popping up in your communities even if some random asks it it just keeps getting comments and it have you seen this that one because it's just asking members to share something about themselves and then other people are curious what's your favorite movie if you want even the most simple one what's your favorite GIF that one that one's popular that one just guaranteed like more comments than anything else and it's kind of a little bit more fun it's not too much effort to think about um or this one I found is really good it's like um sheer three things you do share something you do for fun where you're from and a photo of your workspace right cuz people want to share and so they're like okay I'll take a photo of my desk and workspace I'm from Germany and I like to play golf right that's just sharing themsel and they do a comment or a post like that and then everyone looks at the image and they notice other things they're like oh you've got this desk or oh you're into guitar I also play guitar and now they're making friends you're connecting the community together like we actually do use that one on the course and we tell people if you see someone's introduction post with that comment a gift as well and it works amazingly and it's like the culture of the gift that they post let's say they put a wolf for Wall Street you like gift on their post now everyone will start putting them in yeah and so these This I Swear is the key to like cuz when someone comes in they all you just need a simple way for them to engage and once they're engaged and if they meet someone they like if now they meet someone they on DMS and then that moves to like a hangout in real life or on Zoom they associate that value back to your group right can I just add something as well hen can I just add something yeah go for it yeah so if you want people to engage you can do like all these like little tricks or you can just tell them to engage as well so like what we've done is we've just like indoctrinated people to engage with each other essentially right like in a good way though so we talked about the pr The Mastermind Principle from thinking Grow Rich we explained it to people and said this is why you should engage with each other and then now everyone's just hosting calls with each other communicating like that kind of thing so sometimes you just need to tell people it's the same with the Q&A recordings as well just tell people to watch them give them a reason like tell a story that makes them want to watch it and then they'll watch it so it just works with anything it's just sometimes you just have to tell them why they should do it yeah this is huge like especially on the Q&A calls people sometimes have a question like does anybody here no blah blah blah and if there's like 30 people and there's 600 in the community we like well have you made a post and always no so we like make a post we'll pin it maybe if it's good one and like just telling people that they can make a post they almost feel like they don't have the permission when they join the community but like no you can make a post you can ask if somebody here knows this or does that and just you know doing that especially if something more advanced that you can't really answer in 5 minutes I think that's huge yeah that's that's good for like the regular conversation I think you need to imagine a blend of like sometimes you need to share like something you did like you need to always pay attention to problems your community has and you as the lady it's your job to like find the best solution and you can kind of crowdsource it but sometimes you have to go and explore your on your own and then you find it and you bring it back and you share it you're like hey we found we know this is a problem we did this we found the solution and here it is that that's like good leadership then you need but you need some fun stuff in there for sure I'm honestly shocked at how much of a difference it makes if you have it it I honestly would go as far as saying it's more important than the value like cuz I've seen s figure people join groups that are purely for entertainment um but with other seven figure people so it's like the value happens as an accident um and members contributing like I think one of the most common problems I've seen is people say I've got members in my community I'm posting five times a day but no one's commenting right that have you seen people say that yeah and it's because the people that have engaged communities aren't posting five times a day their members are commenting it's a difference and when you write an article this long that's just an opinion piece what is someone supposed to say like really like and you're putting a burden on them to read that [ __ ] thing like who wants to read that another follow you can do to get more engagement too is uh I like to never answer anything in the comments I always ask questions so everything gets answered with a question which follows a red for every person um and and and you get the research you get to find out those problems you can yeah asking a question it's just that always works so well it's crazy yeah I think um a really good idea too is if you have something that's like a community review like for example we have music money and a lot of we tell a lot of the artists to post their new music post their new beats and then the community members will review be like oh I think you should tweak this I think you should tweak that and then we have another Community where it's mainly about like content making good content and people will post their content or post a link to their content it's almost like I don't know if you guys remember like the engagement groups like back in the day where like they'll post it and everybody goes and comments and likes on their post on Instagram and that increases a lot more engagement around the community too absolutely yeah and just one more thing to add on to that like I think people underestimate like how well information travels in the form of a meme right like a meme can communicate like a 45 minute video worth of information to the right person right if they're a sponge and can soak the information out of it and so I just think like whenever I see like the videos Ryan post right or like something like that I'm like oh that's funny did you see the Fast and Furious I was dying bro I watched that like 400 times yeah and so like I I think people just underestimate like all right like you know like what Goose does is like you know he makes it fun to read a post I think a meme just like sucks your eye in and so it's like if you can figure out how to Comm unicate something through a meme then you're killing it you know yeah I just watched this movie last night it's really good dumb money anyone seen it it's about the gme GameStop vers the hedge funds and it's it's a W Street bets for they have a they had a very good culture you know they invented Diamond hands and like they were making memes of like the Wall Street bets head spanking the hedge funds like you know and everyone just felt like they were in this David verse Goliath like thing and they were all part of something and that's the most powerful thing you can get is when you get that culture there I think school community in the last month has finally found something there's like this culture cuz people are contributing these parody videos that must have taken them a long time if you've seen the Harry Potter one I made the I made the friends one took me like 4 hours the Harry Potter one must have taken a dude that was intensive you've seen the Harry Potter one right yeah yeah um I seen them all them wisely too but the power like referencing that dumb bunny thing that guy just tweeted out a picture just the other day of a gam of a dude leaning up to play games and GameStop uh GameStop stock shot up again from dude just tweeting a picture right just to like no no words attach nothing people are like oh it's back on I need to you know buy into this GameStop and so that's what the power of mean guy posted that yeah yeah he just did got to watch this movie write it down Dum money not only is it an amazing movie Just for straight entertainment but this guy who led that GameStop thing is probably one of the best community leaders we've ever seen on the internet cuz he bought down some hedge funds and up with with memes nothing but memes and he wasn't he wasn't promising the world to people either at first he wasn't telling people GameStop was going to go up 100x he was saying this is going to go up 4 or 5x and I feel like that's another thing people can do is not overpromise whenever and then people are like yes I believe it can do what you're saying it's going to do and then everybody believes in it and then you know yeah yeah that that is perfect exactly what happened in that movie and that's what we're starting to see happen in school like people are making these parody videos and then people laugh and then we started seeing people posting like this is the most positive place I've ever seen on the internet like that pretty powerful so people want to go where the energy good right like if you scroll your Instagram and you feel bad and you go to Facebook bad twitter World War something then you go like you know you go to school and there's some funny videos and someone making a million dollars that is the ultimate right like people winning and people laughing yeah we've seen two outstanding ways that you can drive culture especially if you're like trying to Pivot one of them categories it's super passive this like the thing that's right above your feed where you can sort of when someone comes in they get a pretty good idea this is actually Sam's idea um they get a good idea of what the place is for so even if you don't actively use them it's just kind of a good foundation we've got a lot of good feedback back from that even though I hated them at first they're super useful in like a level one sort of way and this then the more important one is your PIN post does anyone rotate their post actually I learned this [ __ ] from you did you all right that was the first thing I ever saw who's this dude long hair clicked your post and he's like rotate two pin posts a day I I do that myself and I do that with uh with Justin as well rotating pin post it's overpowered actually and so you how long until you saw results immediately immediately yeah you rotate pen post and and you my my favorite thing is when you see people typing like way everyone's like oh what are they typing about yeah so what we what we did with them is ex L this uh the pin post when you first start a community your first uh thought is oh I need to start here so that everyone knew knows exactly where to go which actually kind of [ __ ] you after a little while because the people that are coming back seem the see the same [ __ ] every single time they come back and so you kind of want to speak to them more so you post the pin of the start here Post in a classroom module or you know whatever you need in the start here classroom and then the pin posts are just the stuff that's going on day to day you got a crazy idea or if you can't post that day you take one of your community members and you post them up there and they're [ __ ] jazzed to we pinned oh yeah that once if you pin your members stuff that's key I think you should always aim to have at least one or two the ultimate is all of the pin post from other people that aren't you it just shows the community that if they they it is possible for them to make something that you're willing to pin at the top and then it it's it's like creating this incentive for people to do that um the other thing I would say is you should always be just sensing and on the lookout for who the most valuable contributors are in your group or in your community so like you know when Goose when Goose kind of started to take off I sent mm and I said now that you've proven yourself School hardcore like what do you think of this upcoming feature right so I started to bring him in and give him like access way more access to me and and then you know he's been at the office all week helping design screens for the next 3 months that's s so I mean Ted Carr who's hosting a school meet up right now in LA with 100 people um he is a key to our office so he can just and the alarm pin code he can just up whenever he wants and we just talk about sensitive things in front of him it's like he's a member of our team but what I'm trying to say here is when you see those people you need to reward them because all a group needs to keep it engaged even when it's big as 10 true regulars people like it's like a sitcom right like how many people watch friends but it's just like five people right but it's those people that get everyone else to to come cuz they like the vibe and they like it so you know we've got people like Ted we've got people like Goose um there's Max P there's Evelyn right all of them contribute a different piece this Ryan guy with GIF is adding a new kind of flavor Kirby was adding something now he's on the team Matthew was adding something now he's in charge of our podcast and so and there's a lot more people but you've got to find those when you do see those people you need to like do something to make them feel like they've they're a part of the leadership in a way of of the community what I did is I hired one of the best guys to do a weekly call so I just pay him 100 bucks and he does one of the weekly calls so he's like a professional software engineer and he just helps with like the technical questions so he was already posting a bunch but I asked him hey do you want this because he already was attending every single call so might as well get you know 100 bucks for it and literally for 400 $ a month I get like a professional software developer that just hosts a weekly call in my community yeah this is how you find your team by the way like honestly everyone we've hired that's on the nons software engineering side is from school users like when someone applies I look I'm like where's their link and I look at their activity chart and I'm like this person doesn't use skill like why if they don't care about school I don't want to hire them so like if someone literally cares about your community and is contrib without getting paid then they're going to obviously believe in what you're doing right well this is changing topics from um engagement which I don't know if we should do yet but that is how you find great people yeah I want to hit on one thing with engagement so we we've tossed around the word culture and we haven't defined the word culture and so I'll just share mine that might be helpful which is the rules that govern reward and Punishment in organization and so if you think like we have either spoken rules or unspoken rules but there are rules of how you act and so if you're with your buddies if you say hey I got my girlfriend flowers they just might all of a sudden say like oh you like sucking dick too you know like you're like okay that's the rule that's a rule of behavior right like if you do something that's nice for your wife or girlfriend you're going to get made fun of um but it's because they like you right and but like if you said that to your parents or your you know whatever at the dinner table they would be like oh that's really sweet or that's really nice of you right and so it's different rules so there's a different culture at the family dinner table than there is when you're out with your buddies and so fundamentally trying to what are the rules that govern what gets rewarded and what gets punished within my community will dictate what the quote culture is within it and so just kind of thinking about that in terms of those terms will probably make it a lot easier and so to your point G I actually think this is uh the category piece that you're saying really really important and the main reason I say that is cu like if people are about to make a post when you see what the categories are this signals or this tells them this is what we want you to post about and so this is like this is an an innate rule to this community like we want you to post about winds we want you to post about traffic we want you post about mon monetization we want you post about whatever so it might be like you might have like gifts like they'll imagine the community like same identical Community uh internet marketing right just something like completely generic and the categories in one are gifts memes right like something that makes money or like money- making uh wins and uh Just for kicks right and so like that is one community the other one is um conversion rate value post uh question whatever right and so when you see the two of those like you have a very different feel for those communities before you even engage and so like right off the bat that's the that's the banner literally the the subcategory of all the topics that are going to get discussed and so like if you want to shift the conversation that's going to happen within the culture of or within the within the community that you have telling them what you want them to talk about with the categories feels like one of the most most important things that you can do to do that and you also by by very nature of having those topics means these are what we reward yeah and what we actually did is um we like gamified the categories as well so when it's like um I think Sam did it with like son.com is he made people like ring the bell so we got like a clip from a game like a GTA 5 where Trevor says show me the money and every time someone gets a win they post that but rather than calling it a wins category put haha show me the money and every time they got win they' post it and it would just make it way more respons if everyone would come show me the money every time someone gets a win and it just goes insane yeah and you can have it be wins or you can have it something be funny the way you have it it's still ACC same thing but one of them's like I'm I'm more inclined to post this if I don't feel like I'm flexing you know what I mean um so yeah I I think this was like a I like would double star that personally and then I think that the pinning your members feels very important like think about like what's that's like a jackpot reward like this is what we reward in general and if you pin pin certain posts then that's a super reward this is like let me let me put this guy on the on lit a literal pedestal and tell everyone in my community this is what I want you to do this is me doing a big reward for somebody who does this and so it orients the behavior of everyone in the community and then I'd say what I do is like pinning is probably the first or saying this is a great post or this is amazing right that's key like you see me do this I do it all the time tell people then pinning them but also sending them a DM and then the only people I DM are the people that are like the most School hardcore basically and that I talk to them all the time and then the next level of Hardcore is every now and then will be on zoom and then the next level is they'll be at the office right it's literally what I do not by Design or deliberately this is just how it happened but bring those people closer and give them more cuz by the way they also give me the best feedback that they're helping design Skool literally um and you can use them to help you shape the future of this of the thing you're building and when the commun when a new member comes in and they see that you're really tight with members like that they're going to be like oh [ __ ] if I can get my way up there I can have that too do you get what I'm saying if you if you do this it'll work it'll work really well and it's not exhausting at all is the least exhausting business I've ever run because I don't have to talk to any like everyone there's no I'm never promising that I only talk to the people who I think who I want to talk to really yeah was a point a few days ago the school games Community was really dead no one was posting I like [ __ ] I'm going to get fired all I did was I added a category called banter and I messaged Ryan who's the gift guy who's top of the school community and I said made this for you and immediately he made a post there was 300 comments in like 2 hours from one post and also on the reward punishment thing whenever Evelyn posts every single time she posts I'll comment Evelyn overd delivers again just to like reinforce the good behavior and the DMs I probably send 10 a day if there's ever a good comment I DM and I'm like this was a great comment that was a great post and then bad behavior if someone post bad stuff don't like it message them and say here's our rules here's what a bad post looks like reward good here's what a bad post look like your post see screenshot I got a quick uh a quick tactic that's been like working wonders for our culture true um I have all my guys when they join put like in their bio in school I put like a 15-minute calendar link and then I'm like always referencing it so I'm like I'm mentioning like hey guys like book The 15s I put it on my road map I have like a little road map like book 315s with these guys and I'm doing all the closing right now so like I'll like go on my live calls and I'll notice that two guys who are across the country from each other have so much in common and I like reach out to them like yo you should book a guy with I feel like you should book a call with this guy because of why XYZ and then I follow up with that later like how' that call go and then I get a ton of like Insight on like all my members and like what they're communicating outside of me cuz like there's like a little like a power Dynamic where like I'm the I'm the head coach I'm the the CEO guy right so I don't get like a lot of like vulnerability but I can get the Insight from my community members through each other and the concept actually came from when I was a frat president cuz we would have our top 10 exec guys go on constant 15-minute lunch breaks with all the new members and then that's how we collected Mass information and connected guys like pledges together before the recruitment process so that they would have friends before they even joined the thing and so like the result of that is like I have like buddies like flying down to like Dallas to meet Gladiators who I didn't even like like they're doing it on their owns now because the reward is so high they're getting like brothers so I'm going to I want to say back to you so the users in the community you tell them to put like a calend link for 15 minutes so and then whenever you see people that you think make sense and they already it becomes an innate rule of the community which is like hey if you like someone just like click their Link in book of called they might just segment out you know one part of their calendar where they have you know opening to just banter or whatever maybe they do it for their lunch breaks and they meet new people every day whatever it is I tell them like an I do I do like an hour for three days a week that's just open yeah uh and it crushes so a lot of people do use that almost yeah so I tested it with like five or six guys and they they all loved it and so I'm I'm making it mandatory for everybody now who's using the map are using the map the map it's not a School feature um this this R are you using it we have members meeting up constantly in person that they've met through music money and doing like Studio sessions and stuff and that's honestly like like you guys said like they they equate that their connection to being a part of Music money and so I feel like they've you know people have I just saw the school games not pop up but they just people just share their location who's in Atlanta who's in who's in Detroit you know yeah it was interesting I was in I'm in Ham's group and he did the post like what's the most valuable part of the community and he's trying to remove some stuff and and emphasize some stuff and what could we what's one simple thing we could do to improve it I was the most common answer was get more people to plot their location on the map I was like what we we actually took that idea just a little bit further we're not sure if it'll work yet but it's incredibly popular it's been our most popular piece so far which was setting up a system system that the community could engage on so that it continued that flywheel sort of perpetually and what we're calling it is it's uh it's based off the school games and we're just calling it rainbow games and we just have a pile of things at the end that you can win and the structure is uh you'll be assigned teams between three to five you have one team captain they uh coordinate with our community manager and the objective is to compete based off of three metrics where they are on the leaderboard from um and these are all based on a 30-day time span so it'll basically be one to one with school games where where they are on the leaderboard um what their own personal uh score is on how much they've grown in their own relationships and health and then the last one is how good their offer is based off of where they started from before so we're using those three different metrics people were super jazzed about it and we had uh I think like 30 sign up to do this thing that we'll probably do this next week we don't know all the little intricate details but I think there's a massive opportunity there whereas previously like when you're starting probably most of us have run into this you really want to get a few Community managers to like lift up from the bottom and help comment and stir up conversation but at a certain point when it's feeding itself you can sort of just give that momentum by doing top down where they are in teams or some form of competition and reporting to to the community manager so now the manager is doing less time but having more impact yeah and the more you reward the Top members versus trying to dig up the bottom members those Top members dig up the bottom members so it actually is less it's like your model and it could be something super stupid we the biggest request that we've had recently is I I designed a few profile pictures cuz they wanted more color in their thing so I was like all right if you're on the leaderboard I'll go ahead and do it and now it's one of the things that we offer in there because people really want it and it's silly and it's didn't you guys design a whole Suite of gifts for school yeah he made like a library gift forgot about that yeah Sid said he was going to implement them to that'd be a sweet like level six unlock like if you get to level six I'll make your profile thing for you one more question for you um and just for the context right you said if you go back in time make gym launch 10K a year so I'm I'm kind of in this this new building phase of like I'm I'm going to make my product okay you're honestly go big head long tail with it so like what were like the two to three like specific things that you would like definitely Implement into gym launch's model back then like with your knowledge now to actually make people like renew year-over year yeah okay I got to figure out where my cont for bringing this up because this is what it was something that I wanted to talk about so what everyone in my opinion what you want to do and school's going to very quickly be able to facilitate this so I'm really excited about that you have onetime value and then you have ongoing SLC consumable value all right and I think the big issue it's my opinion um in the information education space is that we try we have one we have one thing here that we try to build for both and so we're like okay well I can get someone to say yes to $3 $3,000 whatever and because they can't pay that today I'm going to spread it over a year and I'm going to deliver all the onetime value up front and then they're still making payments of 25,000 you know $2,500 a month uh month three month four5 six but the problem is the value so think about like this value is going like this but this is price and this is where people cancel value and so when you when you sell them initially they're like 2500 bucks which is my first payment look at the difference between price and value I'm stoked this is great but the day after you learn how to run Facebook ads when you buy something to learn Facebook ads the value of the content teaching your Facebook ads descends to zero there's no additional value right and so this is why in my opinion this is where I think the industry should go or will go and or if I start it over again this is what I would do is you have one type value that you need to be really clear about so this is a lot of times this is going to be the education right um for the most part this is this is the entirety of this right this is the education the checklist the tool the blueprints the whatever right now this usually has a lot of value because you're teaching someone something a skill that's very important and they're going to have that skill forever it's one time payment for an ongoing permanent value increase for that but all this stuff so you've got community right people consume that on a monthly basis there's uh calls right that they consume on a monthly basis uh for us like for example we did a boiler room which is something that we did uh for gyms which was um we would train their sales staff and so we would drill them every day so we'd basically run their sales meeting for them every morning to increase the close rates at the jet they didn't want to do it nor were they good at it if we could increase the closer to the gym they'd make more money they'd stay right it's consumable um uh we had ads which for us was consumable because I would spend 50 Grand a month testing ads in like 10 representative markets I would take the winners and then I would give I would license those winners to a th000 locations so there's zero cost on that besides the 50k then everything after that was gravy right and so that was why it was such a High profit margin business where still is um and so the idea here is if you put on a on a sheet what's the onetime value that I deliver and then what's the ongoing value and if you were to only do this only price this in a way that most people are like wow just these things alone are worth X this becomes your ongoing price and this becomes your upfront and so that is the concept of big head long tail but what you want to do is you want to make sure that what is being built on a regular basis that is ongoing value is ongoing value the things that you build one time are one time value and so then then you can create that described so ra so so probably for most of these qu you know the coaching education businesses instead of saying okay I'm going to sell you something for $30,000 it's $2,500 a month it might be it's 10K up front than $500 a month but then no one cancels right and so then you just play with how do I liquidate you know cost acquire and the thing is this is where the patience if like if I did this all over again like the the business model that gets fastest to 20 million isn't necessarily the one that gets fastest to 100 million because you might have this price the old pricing model which skyrockets to 20 million a year or whatever but then like you have a really hard time passing because turn starts eating away at you and so you're like shoot I need to sell more I need to sell more but it's really tough especially in a nich to sell more right whereas if you're not losing the customers then the first year you do you know eight the next year you do you add another eight on top you're at 16 third year you're at 24 you're like oh actually by year three I'm a little bit above what the other one was but the first one you're at 20 and you think you're hot [ __ ] because you're beating the other guy who's lower ticket right but year four all of a sudden this guy's now at 32 and you're still stuck at 20 you're questioning your life and everybody hates you right but this guy's like man the price to value for my stuff is is through the roof that makes sense and when you want to sell something else you have this massive distribution of people who love you and your brand your reputation are all great because you delivered something really valuable and you charged for it and then you deliver something let's be honest less valuable but then you charge appropriately does that make sense yeah so this allows you to have basically price here price and then it drops to here for your ongoing and so you still always have the Delta this this is how I think about it yeah that's super helpful I never had like the discrepancy between the one time and the ongoing value I would try to Bunch the ongoing with the 6K ticket price but now I'm going to go right and so one thing I think is again a mistake that most people make I mean myself included I made this mistake um I think it's the vast is how most people do this in in this business is um they they take it and they spread the the payments over a year or some arbitrary amount of time I would rather say like I want to be very clear you're paying this for this and that for that and so if you need a payment plan we're going to front like it's I'm not spreading over year like you need to pay this off as fast as possible because that's what you're paying for and I maybe doing you a favor like I'll split pay it I'll three pay it or whatever and that might mean that the ticket price like and here's the funny thing is that everyone here knows this who's in in the high tiet world you sell something for $30,000 you're not collecting 30 you collect however many payments your turn is times 20 it's like okay yeah but we turn at 25% a month and we're our price Point's 2500 bucks so really it's 10K that's what you're actually making so whatever you claim versus what you make are two very different things and so if that's really what you're making then maybe you just charge seven and you get way more people to say yes because the thing is is when you have a 30k price point you still have to make the 30k sale but you're not even collecting 30 it's like the worst of both it's like you have a lower conversion because the price is high but you're even collecting on the low conversion and so it's like sell at seven maybe and then let's say that churn on the 500 is I don't know whatever 4% right and so now of a sudden it's 25 you're getting 25 months at 500 so you get 125 on the back seven on the front now you're at 195 in LTV and because you charge seven up front instead of trying to confront uh a 30k price point you might sell two or three times as many and now your epcs go up 6X because you had you trip you doubled LTV but you might also one and a2x conversion or double conversion so now you Forex epcs in terms of your earnings per click or your conversion what each each person is worth to you this is in my opinion the better way to run the business most people just don't do it and maybe in 5 years they'll find this video and is that what made gym launch cable no what made gy launch cable was that um I did nothing in it and it was very consistent and we had multiple forms of acquisition and so I had to basically paint the picture which was that did you know that 30% of gims go out of business every year and I mean they're like oh I didn't know that I was like right so no matter what structurally a third thir of gyms got a business because it's a tough business in general and so the good news of that also is that every year another 30% enter the market and so we can stay at this place and we can sell all the new gyms that come in and that means that this business will just you know continue to maintain and then the opportunity for growth is going to come from you know some of the other things that I had already like planted seeds for that were going to be down the line to increase L TV great I just want to say that's beautiful that's like exactly what I needed so thank you I'm ready to like go home and work so yeah see you guys for real yeah that was clutch thank you cuz with a coaching business you answered my question that I've been asking for like six months what is the end goal me yeah you've been asking me for 6 months no not you check your myself he's like I have tagged you every single day every day story Post Yeah than you oh good okay great number five we talk about how to build a community within any business and every single business has a community they just have bad ones and good ones but every business has one and so if you're doing it the bad way there's not consistent the second worst way is when it's just dependent on you having a relationship with every single customer the ideal way is that every one of these customers has a relationship with one another so that if your break with them breaks they still stick because they've got five other connections to other people in the community and that strengthens the bond that's what creates a network within a community and then it will always be bigger than you because one person can only have so many relationships and that's what allows your business to grow bigger than you this is just how I would explain it it's like each one of these people on the right this is the traditional way that most people are doing it which is that they try and become more and more interesting themselves model that's literally Guru model yeah this yeah here I'll just write it Guru model doesn't work well for Community by the way if you just post it doesn't work and if everyone wants to talk to you you're going to be exhausted yeah yeah and so think about this so like this is what it looks like visually and with your eyes you can almost immediately see the difference but the point that I would highlight is look how many tie-ins these people have to the community versus those people those people only have one tie and so likely like if this if this breaks right this breaks this guy leaves right he gets out but if all of a sudden this breaks right he you know stops talking to that guy he's still he's not going anywhere right or this breaks like nothing happens and so I think a lot of the things that we're talking about here are trying to get to this which is like we're talking about the maps we're talking about 15minute thing we're talking about encouraging the engagement between them like the whole point of all this stuff is to facilitate that like why do we want them to share things about themselves and take a picture of their car take a picture of their workspace or or share themselves on the map it's because then they can start orienting themselves with one another like that's that's how they connect with each other because they can find similar things and so it's like how can we create a space that rewards them sharing things that they can find similarities because fundamentally they have a shared interest but until they know the rules of engagement they're just going to be like okay well I do I want to get punished for doing something and so by having the categories by pinning exactly what you want people to do by dming those people afterwards like those are all things that then encourage more and more of this which then creates this and then this I'm actually really pumped that this is the direction that the the conversation went in because in a past you know uh probably one or two ago we went really deep on retention right and so there's lots of like what I would like the hard side stuff of retaining the community and I'm glad that goose you're here for like to basically have this the other side of the conversation of retention in the community which is the whole experience right what are the rules of how this community works and what do we reward and what do we punish and I think like I'll bet that the people were watching this and probably you guys too you might be able to cut your turn even more by doing this stuff somebody at her hand yeah shoot yeah I have two kind of questions how do cuz I I resonate with this a lot um how do you go from Guru like once you already are operating on the right side how then would you go to the left you don't decrease you you increase them that's good yeah okay that answers that the second one is for Real it did uh okay how do you sell because I think a lot of the conversation is pre-framed so I used to work for a lady uh she had 4,500 members and then what she would tell them is if you cancel you can never never come back for a year right which was awesome cuz people would never leave like it decreased turn and then the second thing was they would have requirements like for them to do um like what what are your thoughts on that I've seen the the you can't come back thing have zero effect in some businesses because they're like yeah I never want to come back anyways I don't really care um and so like it's like it's kind of one of those chicken egg things where like if you have a valuable Community then people fear losing it and so then they don't want to cancel but at the same time if you've a valuable Community then you've already won and so it doesn't matter okay well just one more point on that question would you sell an outcome different than you would sell a community um I wish I could just sell a community yeah right people have a hard time ascribing value to community I mean like in the gym world we used to say sell the bikini they come for the bikini they stay for the the community um and like the way that you you have the offer in terms of the outcome that they're going to have is going to be the thing that that's going to bring them in right but then all of this is the stuff that's going to get them to stay and so I would say there's different objectives like to get someone to convert you talk about the outcome to get them some to stay they're going to like you you want to reward as many times as you can within that community and basically it's too arduous for one business owner to reward every single person as many times as they possibly can to get someone to stick and it's so much easier to create the system that allows the culture that allows people to reward each other at a way higher frequency than you ever could as a guru cool and I really want to like like what's the word emphasize like The Leverage here on this left side like if you have a lot of client knowledge you can connect guys and it will exponentially increase your leverage on how valuable your community is like for example like like Justin right here like you should Network I think you should network with um other Justin over there and maybe Pablo because you guys both have like this commercial construction experience right like I don't know anything about commercial construction because I know like one detail about that you guys can get like a quick 15 and then you'll like associate that connection with like the value of my community and that connection and build go like that so like I can like almost like increase my leverage into like that construction space for example even though I don't know much about it but it'll add so much value to the community as a whole and it make you guys level up too so it's like a win-win yeah this is huge I actually sold a few people that way somebody asked me like if I have something on sales AI agents and I didn't so I searched up um school and it loaded up a few members that specialized in this so was like if you join today I'll connect you to XY Z who is doing exactly this and they join for that and then I connect them you wor about it's Greatful no it's good it's good I feel like this is the visual like I feel like this is the the main difference like this is what all the tactics that we were talking about earlier this is the end result of good culture like what happens is when community members start getting known like the leaders of the community kind of get get jealous and they like they remove them or like they punish them so you need to work on your internal side as well and be comfortable with people leading your community as well for you does that make sense like we have yeah we have Champions side of the school I mean good like all the all the names that say reference earlier like you bring the people closer to you who you want to encourage and create distance for the ones who you don't want yeah I literally never even think about that like we're building you guys up literally like we're trying to give you guys the fame and then the more we do that the better the the community is so like it I I don't what you're saying though I had this realization all of a sudden but yeah the PE if you have that mindset you'll never have a good Community because the moment there's someone that has anything good to say you're going to like kick them out yeah exactly I'm not saying I have it I'm saying don't have it I'm might happen it's kind of natural with humans you know I mean kind of get jealous of each other you've got to be mindful of things that might be not what they don't align with your vision for the community like oh everyone this thing is just way too complicated and I think this is a dumb idea even if people like it I I'm not a fan of this it's not for a personal reason I just it doesn't align with the vision of of the thing so you you you can't let it just go out of control you have to shape it a little bit um but that comes in who you reward and who who you pull closer and yeah yeah I mean when we we talked about this before even thinking like when we were coming with the idea of the school games overall was we wanted to have as many like school games champ like it's the games like we want school games Champions like that was the whole the whole point was to elevate it cuz we already like I already have the clout you know what I mean it's like our to like get as many other people so we have lots cuz think about it this way is like you want to have as many different walks of life and like avatars within the community that represent success like within obviously within you know the wider the Box the more buied the community the the Champions can be but like like I would love to like this isn't planned this just happens organically but it's like I'm glad that Evelyn is a girl who's you know really really awesome inside of the community and there's also black guys and white guys and older guys and young like we had the grandmother who hit you know a million bucks like it shows that like anybody can do it U obviously we're super super Broad in terms of what we're looking at but even within the subs segment of whatever Niche you're you're going after you're going to have different psychographics different demographics that can be represented and that's that only increases the amount of people like this guy or this let's call this a lady right these might be lady people right and then this might be a dude right and these might be dude people but if this person can't find connection then there's no no ties and then she leaves right so having different people that represent even kind of slightly different flavors like chocolate and caramel chocolate and coffee like it's like you have you have chocolate is your community but it's like different type different Flav subf flavors of chocolate yeah we can definitely see those circles in school Community like the ads people yeah the like creators and there's the creators guys all the like the YouTubers then there's the there's definitely the girls and there's definitely I call them the Chads Like We call we joke around at that about that like oh that's the Chad Network um and then there's the like the Boomers like for sure and by the way that's a massive population bigger than any other generation the largest business that we have in the portfolio crushes with Boomers so they have all spending power was that it's the largest generation in the world with the most money with the most n and spending power like you both like sell to them um and yeah you can start to see these different things it makes the culture more interesting then I'd say the goose and GIF people like they I honestly for a period we were seeing posts like how do I how to Goose instructions and like did you guys see all of these Goose posts it was like it Goose was taking over at one point and then when Ryan came in with GIF I'm not [ __ ] you the amount of our GIF usage on across our platform spiked so much that gify called us and said we needed to discuss a paid Enterprise plan and now we have to pay them a grand a month CU we're using 500 terabytes a month it's a testament of culture yeah and it's like but then everyone saw that and they were like oh can use gifts in my community I can use polls I can be more like goose and they're learning these different elements that they can play with yeah in their Community yeah the other one I'd say is calls calls is getting getting some the moment you take someone from just an avatar and some text to being on Zoom it's like it now you've got a a voice now you can see a face now there's some expressions and it there's more depth um so if you're not doing calls this is I'm sure everyone here is doing calls but I bet you there's people at home that are thinking they need to make a lot of classroom content no I swear all you need to do is have three posts that like introduce yourself and share a photo of your workspace what's your favorite book what's your favorite movie what's your favorite gift there's four posts that are easy and then one call on the calendar that could be just called coffee hour and there's no agenda you just hang out on zoom while you have your morning coffee maybe once a week three times a week whatever done then let it happen first right and then you can figure out okay I'm going to make this little module cuz this is what then you can start serving your community but it has to be there before you know what they want right and then you start serving and you keep adding things and curating and then it's more valuable so now maybe you charge and now maybe you increase the price over time and do you see what I'm saying like that's all you need to start we're actually going to hide the class tab when you create a new community H well we looked at retention making a course has no correlation to retaining as a customer in fact it's one of the reasons why people turn right cuz they say I don't have a camera right I don't have a lighting setup and I will come back when I've made my content yeah no [ __ ] so it is and it has no correlation with retention so we're like okay let's just hide that Tab and let's just get encourage people to make a calendar and do three simple posts and then bring people in down now the engagements happening and then you learn you don't have to write article posts you don't need to this isn't substack like you don't have to sit down and like invent these articles all the time you're not a writer you're you're bringing people together it's it's a there's a difference there but it's very hard for people to grasp for some reason there was something that that you were mentioning before about um I I'll take it to to take it one step further it it's come up once but a lot of times the offer that you have this isn't for everybody but it's quite easy for an offer to be hard to to sell um and the person that needs it can't recognize it when they see it but fundamentally you can kind of always understand something like a Mastermind or a coffee hour and so if you sell that and you give them what they need you almost always score like I think we have like 98% retention for across all of them just because we reversed everything so that we're we bring them in on what they want but we give them what they need and it it just works every time and it's something that maybe you guys couldn't could also run with because it's a I mean it's it's a showstopper for sure and by that you mean they come in for the funnels they stay for the fun no they come in for the Mastermind they stay for the funnels all right bit stickier yeah we started the other way yeah it just worked better the the fun is just kind of like a cherry on top like it it's it's sort of I mean you'll see it in kind of like the Captivate branding I literally analyzed every little [ __ ] pixel and I was like how can I get more attention from one glance and so it was colors it was um bizar it was cussing whatever whatever it had to be it was just like just be whatever came naturally not like forcefully and then from that point the fun was like a nice introduction and a good tone a good cultural tone but everything else was just yet trying to situate and that was where our big roadblock was and when we reverse that like almost on accident it completely changed everything else yeah how many people here are teaching someone how to make money or do something to with business what I think you'll find fascinating is that most people don't want to start a business no like really I learned this after talking to Big YouTubers they're like oh but now that's a business and I was like yeah and they like I don't want that so like most people don't want a business what they really want is they want to like feel good and have fun that explains the whole world how many people how many people are at the [ __ ] Library ver vers versus playing computer games or like you know watch watching movies or like going to bars right like how much money gets spent on like going to bars and video games and everything versus everything else um it's it just that shows you that's what people want more than anything but I think once you become an entrepreneur it's even harder to see once you become a hardcore entrepreneur as you think everyone's kind of like you but most I can tell you most people aren't and no one is yeah like I mean 9% of people have a business and that like that means literally like own an LLC so that includes like hair stylists who are Solo prur so 9% so if you cut out solo prur and then just go people who have employees you're looking like one out of every I I don't know what the stat is but I would imagine it's probably one out of every 50 people actually has a a business with employees like it's not a lot of people this is why I think the fun element is really important cuz I've seen a lot of people say this they were like I never wanted to start a business or be an entrepreneur until I knew it could be fun right like it's I think that's how you make the market bigger for sure like if you want to get more people people to buy your thing and all of that I think a lot of it comes from not just more training or more like explaining or more like logical Concepts and Frameworks I think it's trying to make it more fun and interesting to people does that make sense yeah that's why I was excited about these recent breakthroughs that we've had because it's it directly translates to the actual thing you want which is retention sales Word of Mouth by the way like all of the things that we dream of but it it comes from tapping into this slightly different thing I love that we had classroom done it yet I think it's a great idea this next clip is about strategy which is my fancy word for prioritization fundamentally we all have a certain amount of time money effort people that we can allocate across a million different things and so the idea is the people who move the fastest in business make the Best Bets because they choose to allocate those resources to the things that get them the best returns and this is how to pick which ones you should so we're we were selling before we built the program okay so as I'm actually using time to create the content and get the program out there's less time to get more people in so the revenue goes down as we're building so how would you fix that aren't you guys Partners you you're not solo are you you split the responsibilities maybe one on growth one on building that's a great way yeah okay thank you nailed it and also you're going to work a lot it's as a side note like you're just going to work a lot yeah we work all day already yeah oh we also have one more person Kirby who does like Community Management so we divided it even more like I'll just think about making it better Kirby will run it operationally and hosi will bring people in do you see mhm that makes sense so get like potentially more people if needed if not just split the work yeah for everything's going down because you're like you the point I was making earlier about the classroom thing is like I would not want you to overproduce content for the classroom since the vast majority of people they quote want to buy it but they don't actually consume it um and they consume the community far more than they consume the content and so I would like try and make it as paired down as you possibly can to increase the likel that they do consume it and get value because if they see a ton of videos they just say like nah but if you say like guys the whole thing you can cover in less than two hours then the likely that they're going to watch it goes way up does that make sense so I would just not don't kill yourself on it try and think what are the actual few things they need in order to be successful just make that so that you can still focus on basically keeping keeping the business going yeah perfect thank you um how to revive a dead Community right so one of our partners um they got in school very early on and it just grew very massively before we had buil out our infrastructure they have 14,000 members just dead Community is just dead I think a lot of people in the school community haven't even been in there probably in weeks months um I think one time there was a lot of like Bots and stuff and we hadn't gotten that system in place and that kind of probably like wasn't good and then um so yeah how to revive that community so it can be more of a nurture to the paid so this is your free community uh into into music money no this is so yeah we we work with a lot we have a bunch of different communities okay um this is one of our free communties it's called Kingdom Minds okay yeah they have like 14,000 members and they're paid community is doing well cuz we do webinars right and we just sell that but the free community itself is just yeah like not 95% of people are like at level one essentially like you know they may do an introduction and then that's all they ever do so like just well is there anything you guys have in mind like to bring that back to life makes sense did you do the same thing that Zayn did where like the people went into the free thing you sold all the engaged people no and I think that's definitely part of it but even the most engaged people in the free group of that one are the people from the paid group they stayed over there and still engaged but it's like we can't elicit more engagement out of people they they're like oh I want to join you know they join make a profile and then they're like you know we don't know how to make it like a part of their every day kby do you have anything they you've hurt yeah I would like launch for something exciting like a challenge or something that is going to get people excited but why reactivate why do you want to reactivate what problem does it solve well it's just 14,000 members and I'm just like you know I feel like do a few broadcast post and there then move on do you post in that much um so yeah we have a school manager that's making posts in there um are they good posts it's okay post you know about like content nothing honestly a lot of the game that we got in right now about like you know making it more funny and entertaining will definitely like you know add that in there's been more value based and more like hey we got a free training which is the webinar so it's probably a lot more CTA what problem does the group solve um it's about social media you know no like why no no not not not for them like why does it exist for you uh as an upsell as a as a funnel to go to the paid community and to so it's the lead magnet it's the lead magnet well really the webinar is so here's the thing so the webinar is the lead magnet but we have a web hook that takes people to the free community so people were just getting into the free community after the web webinar so we don't even have their data on like phone numbers and stuff so all we have is their email from schol let me ask this if you just didn't have the free community would everything still work fine yeah so maybe maybe maybe you just have a paid community and you just run ads to your webinar sell people into the paid community and that's I just I think the only reason we'd want to get it better is just for discover you know be on the Discover yeah one point we were top 20 the community was top 20 cuz it was growing so fast and then now it's like I don't even know it's like up there so it's just kind of like we have this a bunch of members in there like I mean we could deactivate it but do you have any super users no yeah they they've already upgraded the paid members essentially they're still over on the free community but yeah it's just you know our our only point of really getting it back alive would be to get on the Discovery I think you know overall like raising engagement to get on Discovery page would be the ultimate goal I want to add something when it comes to the post so you have a community manager right mhm do they have their own accounts or do they use your accounts they they use the the person's account the yeah the owner's account okay yeah because if somebody else makes a post but they're a community manager nobody will pay attention because people join because of you are the artist right so yeah great point though I me think I think if you were going to try and engage it I think doing basically doing something exciting that is valuable for those people will get them to be excited and then I would just I I would I'd balance that with Sam's question which is like why do you even bother well if you do re-engage it one thing that we did that was quite successful when we were doing the rainbow games thing was One requirement was you had to tag people that were less active than you that you'd like to compete with and it was actually surprisingly successful yeah that's interesting sweet any of else come up questions St mind otherwise I'm going to grab out of this bag of of there was some that were interesting cuz all the ones left we've pretty much covered at previous ones right yeah they're like standard topics but there was some that were kind of unique this time around like um and I I think this kind of relates somewhat to what you just said which is what is the next lever to pull mhm it's like cuz you know there's a million things you could do like reactivate this dead Community but I swear you your time would be better spend doing something else yeah like how do you find that next live at a pull yeah so this is like so that question fundamentally for everyone here like if you could walk away with that being correct would be in my opinion the most valuable thing that you can do to walk away from here cuz you're going to have two pages three pages of notes from today and what's going to happen is you're going to get on a plane and you're you're going to have a fresh piece of paper and you're going to go through your notes and then you're going to write like a list of like three things that you're actually going to do and then that's actually what you're going to end up doing from today that will be the output of this day and so I just want to make sure that and then of those three things one of them will have by far a disproportionate impact on how much money you make and so most small businesses or even even midsized businesses don't grow as fast as they could because they spend their time doing the wrong things it's and the what's what's deceptive about it is you you can make an argument that reactivating this group can make the business more money there's a lot of things that can make the business more money the question is just which of these things will make it the most money and so by doing that we have to reverse back into we had those four levers that I had earlier we've got traffic we've got conversion we've got price and then we've got churn so those are the big four things and so if we want to grow the business those levers have to change or the business will not grow and so for many of you it might just be you need more traffic like the business model is fine the economics are fine and you need more traffic and so basically at least my thought process that I have with this is I try and scale as much as I possibly can until something breaks and then when it breaks we fix that thing and then go back to scaling the [ __ ] out of it again I mean fundamentally that's what we do and um I mean I I teach this at at for for businesses but I'll I'll I'll walk you through it uh so what is going to go to these four levers that we talked about earlier right which is going to be your traffic your 2f there whatever conversion which is you tweaking your about page making a vsl that's better adding Carousel images tweaking the bullets that you have on your landing page uh you've got the price which you can test and then you've got churn right which has a big list of things that you can do so these are the four levers the things that you're doing have to Lad up to one of these four if it doesn't lad up to one of these four things why are you doing it all right so like if we were to translate your objective with the free group you would have to say okay I think that the US reactivating the free group will increase traffic that's fundamentally what you're doing you want this traffic source to make you more money from your to towards your ticket High ticket thing and you say okay how much work will it take me to reactivate this group okay is there anything else that could get me more traffic than reactivating the group of the things that I have available so right now could me just spending more money on ads or making better ads make us more than me spending the time to reactivate the group if so forget reactivating the group make better ads or spend more money on ads does that make sense so once you figure out and when we're picking which of these three things or four things that you're doing the thought process is what which of these is the biggest constraint in the business and so if conversion rate let's say for example on the on the landing page is super low then it might mean like hey before getting more traffic I'm I'm going to I think I can double my conversion on this page cuz I haven't really spent any time on it at all okay well then it makes sense to spend a day or two like can I really clean this up and make it as crisp as humanely possible with the language that I use can I grab screenshots that are more meaningful that like you probably had more testimonials things like that you haven't updated like can I put that on there can I make an actual 3-minute vssl that that is more compelling than the one that I just like tossed up there okay that's probably a day of work well it's probably high leverage because I can double the growth of the business by just improving this conversion metric pricing like well if everybody just pays you more we already went through that example over here um this could obviously make you more money and then you have your big list of things that you're doing for turn and so cool which of these is the biggest uh thing that's going train in the business you pick the one that you're working on and then for me I tend to think through this more better new and I tend to do it in this order most of the time so like I will just ask when portfolio to is like why can we not just do more of what we're currently doing like whatever we're doing why can't we just do more so you'd have to make an argument to me that we should reactivate the group rather than just spending more money on ads and you have to make an argument that it's easier and it will make us more money than spending more money on ads and if you came out the argument they' be like well then forget about it if we can't do anymore for whatever reason we have some limitation like we can't post more than twice a day on Instagram like we just can't or we can it just like we've seen that when we post three times it doesn't doesn't yeld the same performance so two is kind of The Sweet Spot fine all right then what can we do to make it better right okay cuz if we can make those two posts just higher quality overall can we like really think through the hooks can we make sure that they're take that they appeal ideally to the audience that we're looking for if we do better then the quality of the traffic will go up the more views will go up does that make sense now if we can't do any more any better then we need to try something new and you notice that most of the times you can do more of what you're doing you can do what you're doing better which is why I so rarely do new things once you have something that works that's the hard part once it works it's like how do we scale the living crap out of it and the reason that most entrepreneurs in my opinion especially small ones get stuck is that they find something that works and they stop doing it and then they get distracted by six other new things and they get completely spread thin and it's and like what's ironic is that the small business owner is the one who has the least amount of Leverage and you have the basically your your contribution your time contribution to the the income of the business is more direct than anybody else's especially at this level and so like you like saying okay I'm going to take a third of my time that might just be like decreasing your business by a third um it's have a very strong argument for why that's going to make sense and then for who once you have a team then that becomes the the next thing it's like okay we know we going to increase traffic the way that we're going to do that is like we can't do more posts on Instagram so we're going to make them better and this is the process that we're going to focus on getting better which means that uh once a week I'm going to take three hours and I'm going to script out I'm going to look at other people's you know content that have really good hooks I'm going to write down all the hooks and then I'm going to make content that I think is going to appeal to my demographic in a better way cool now who's going to be you know if it's you then you're the who in a lot of these if the business gets bigger then it's like okay Jeremy you're running this and then we just measure to make sure Jeremy does his job that makes sense in terms of thinking through this and so we just want to make sure that what you are doing is going to map to what's going to drive growth within the business and I swear to God so many times people are just doing [ __ ] that does not map to this okay Red's over one quick question on that the the first four is there like a certain priority that you would recommend for like I'm a solo operator I'm doing like 50 a month BC offer is there like one of those big four that you would recommend prioritizing first you start here okay because this is how you have lifeblood in the business so you have to promote you have to acquire customers once this is relatively consistent even at a low level I then this is me how I think through this now not when I was younger normally I would just be like just do as much of this as you can forget everything else now it's do enough of this so that we can keep working on how do we how do we find the things that people actually want versus what we think they want and then there the things that we can remove like how can we delete things how can we make this simpler how can we make it more elegant how can we shorten the the modules that we have I mean we're hiding classroom for new people like think about this like we remove three calls a week like we're trying to take things away not because we don't want to add it's easy for us to add the value it's but we want we want them to consume it and so consumption should be the highest priority for everybody here in terms of making like how do they get value they have to consume value right so consumption should be the highest priority and so um we start here until you have enough flow going through the system that we can see what they really want and a lot of times these simple things like the last master I think we went through a ton of depth of all the things that you can do to reduce T right it's like so you experiment with that and this might be months while you're doing this I mean for context school didn't hit like a like let's go hyperscale until like recently and this was years right of getting the product right like obviously like there's people coming in every day and there was a enough promotion that we basically we could test and keep learning but it wasn't like we don't want the world to find out about it yet because we want to get all these pieces right once these pieces are right enough then you go back here and you scale living hell out of it boom y it's great so right now the question for you is if you have really low turn I don't know if you do but from what you were saying it sounds like you have low turn then then yeah do more traffic yeah do more do better of what you're currently doing so you're are you running ads yeah so you'd spend more spend more and Mak them better top 20% of my best customers targeted towards them now that I have that insight and then just keep making that better and then just more more better and then just spend 400 Grand a month on ads yeah sure I mean it's like an inside joke in my business like he's just going to say more better it's like y that's what we're going to do this quarter just like we did last quarter just like we did the quarter before we're going to do more we're going to do better and if we do both of those things we'll probably make more money and then if there's something that prevents us from doing more or better then we fix that and then we go back to more better does anyone have questions about what they need to do for this like like you need you're like okay am I should I be spending more money well if you're if your LTV is good in terms and you're and your and your CAC is low then yeah I just keep spending I guess for like low ticket communities you know recently you had a video where you went like seven things like a handwritten letters on boing exit interviews for communities on school like which one of these you go after it the first kirby I feel like you have even more insight with you the price sounds like the thing that's moving at say again the price okay because you've already experienced what that's doing right you know the average is around 20 you probably want to be on the good side of that so figure out why you're not like I would talk to your customers first like why did you cancel you want to talk to the people that cancered you want to talk to the people that stayed and you want to figure out what differences they have and then if you find the people that stayed did these things emphasize those things if you find the people that left did other things remove those and so it might not be price I'm just yeah it but you told us so um maybe it's price so like balance that and then you know with your traffic you you can drive more of that and then you can play with about page conversion you can play with that and then when you're both of those go back to retention CH I know I can drive like easily way more traffic it's just that I have a leaky bucket so I want to fix it so I'm like wondering if I should add the onboarding or you know events onboarding I think for sure is a good idea and how would you execute that for low ticket you do a group onboarding and everybody who signs up gets one group onboarding that you attend you do it once a week yeah I think people throw a lot of [ __ ] in their community and then they just keep adding and then they think they need to keep adding to make it better but it's not true like overwhelm is the main cause of churn think about the experience so how many things in the classroom would you say is like The Sweet Spot cuz like right now I have like eight maybe honestly the hardest part I found when improving anything is to figure out what's actually wrong with it that but I've been working on the school games funnel recently by the way homos will be happy about this um I figured out like what the problem to try to figure out what the problem was was actually quite difficult but in the was my it was this guy I knew from New Zealand who's a complete stoner that had text me when hosi when hosi launched the games he couldn't understand what it was and I was not going to try to explain it to him but when we came back to making this improving it I was like it turned out that he was the best signal for it actually what the [ __ ] is the school games I wrote it down that was the problem if you didn't know what school was you have and you see an ad from homos he's talking about the school games and some leaderboards and coming to Vegas people don't know what the [ __ ] that is so I wrote down what the [ __ ] is the school games and I was like that is the problem so but that took me a lot of research to to like find right I was talking to a lot of people I was doing this with Kirby it's quite an interesting process right and then we were like okay well how do we describe this damn thing in a way that is Mak sense to like a stoner dude um because it helps to use extreme cases like Steve Jobs tested products on children because like if they could understand it anyone could understand it right so like defining the problem and then coming up with different ways you could solve it I've been doing this with goose and Kirby and the office all week we probably designed we came up with many different ways to describe what it is many different landing pages many different bullets and we just kept talking to users getting feedback and kept iterating it we probably made 30 versions some of them were so wrong it was I wondered what kind of tangent you'll never see it but you know we actually at the end of about one week we landed on something and um and now everyone we show it to instantly gets it it's like we don't actually have to fully launch to find out out when you learn how you can use everyone to get like feedback and talk to people and show it to people and get their reactions you can do a lot of fast iteration Cycles without the harshness of like reality then when you launch it into reality you have a way B chance right um so that's how you improve anything like that that's not the games but that's what we were doing to the games recently we Kirby was doing interviews with all of the winners that was overwhelming not many people were showing up so we cut that we just did one hosy Q&A a week right attendance is up every viewing is up people are now saying that it's way more valuable and you know so it's we were unlocking the one day recordings after you got three customers we like why are we making it hard to get the most valuable thing now you just need three members they can be free right so like what do people value how do we make more people experience that what do people not value take it out what do people not understand reword it you see it's all the same but I I will I will I will emphasize what I'm saying is that there's a it's so much more work than you expect it to be and everyone wants like the one silver bullet that you're going to magically fall on it but if it were obvious you would have already done it and so it's like it's disguised and that's what I mean this is literally what makes business hard and so I'll have a business owner on a Q&A call say like what should my price be and I'm like I don't know I'll walk you through the process of how I'd figure it out but I don't know your avatar I don't know your traffic scores I don't know the value prop of your community and even if I did I would say I'll start here and I'm going to do the math and I'll move it and I'll do the math I mean with a portfolio same thing I was telling I was like we tested 50 35 25 15 we just tested it I was like I don't know we'll find out and then they were all the same and then I was like okay well which business would I prefer and then we go into that right and so just just in terms of thinking through things like the amount of effort that goes into it that most I would say that like as I've gone as I've G moved up in business the my understanding of the level of effort that's required to solve complex problems has gone up 100x it's just significantly harder to solve more complex problems and that's also why the biggest paydays are on the other side of those problems because if they were really easy to solve everyone have already solved it so it's like 4 hours and a cup of coffee and a bunch of data you're like all right let's try this there's a quote I learned from the software engineers at school they say you have to make every detail perfect but the only way you can do that is to limit the amount of details that you have so inside of the school games we have eight videos all of them together are less than 45 minutes one course we do one call per week and that's it and once a month you get a download from here the Mastermind that's it very easy to explain to someone one call one course one Mastermind a month and there's 13,000 people in there each paying 99 a month and they get the school software that a question yeah so there's a fine balance between because if you're a leader of a big Community right if you're showing up too much you kind of almost lose your power right and if you do q&as every single day nobody one it's not special so how would you balance Q&A calls making posts inside of the community and just showing up and like giving people attention like that I'm sure there's a data answer for this rather than me just guessing we can probably find it out of like what the the best you know Cadence is I'll tell you I personally I think post twice a month in school that's not planned I just I just kind of poke around and I see what people are struggling with I made that Niche post because I was really tired of people like what's my niche going to be about I was like here's how you find your Niche and so it's just like I just listened to what was the like there's you probably noticed this in your communities there probably like a pro like a problem dour it's like people just kind of glob on to a single problem all of a sudden and like I felt like I was seeing more and more of that so I was like all right I'm going to try and answer this and so then you make that and then it's like hopefully and if it does if you put the thing in and then that problem still exists then you didn't do it right so it's like you have to do it again you have to make it simple you have to make it easier whatever it is you keep doing it until that one goes away and then like the next problem will occur and the good news is that your customers will always have problems yeah and so you just solve them I can tell you a good thing that works for me um so I spend a lot of my time reading what people are saying like I'm trying to understand what things people are struggling with so I'm not in there just posting a lot I'm in there listening the most more than anything else most it would be like 90 it would be like a lot of time is spent listening trying to figure out what is going on what should I improve what problems is the community facing right then when I'm pretty sure I've got those problems I'll even talk to some power users and I'll validate do you think these are actually problems right and then I'll make sure I'm clear on the problems first okay now if I spend now prioritize them what's the most what is the most pressing problem okay number one now I'll just focus on that at least I know if I just fix that I'll add some value right yeah so now I'll try to fix that and I will try to fix that by research experimentation Etc and then I'll come back to my community and say hey I saw all you guys were facing this that sucks I fixed it here you go and that's how I like that's how you add value seriously no like I I have this little template on my wall for emails which is uh hey I made this thing for you here's what it does good afternoon enjoy like CTA like that's like that's my email template like it just makes it really simple like hey you guys were struggling with this thing I made this for you here's why it's important goodbye the hard part is finding the thing yeah like I said how do we make the school games funnel better well what's the problem with it that's the real question and it was some Stone a dude who had the answer yeah so you wouldn't have a schedule of like daily or second like every second day or definitely not that's like a Henry Ford production line for Community like we're not trying to pump out posts fast that's not what makes a that's robotic that's not that's not a good Community a good Community is something that understands your pain and experience and delivers Solutions and is fun yeah you're right yeah and isn't overwhelming and doesn't make me read five articles a day I like value Post Yeah cuz I don't want to read a bloody article that's a pain in the ass like I want a solution or I want to laugh one of them yeah so I have a question if you guys had to decide on building like a an Adonis school or an anime shreds which would be your choice I actually don't understand the question so the the model that they have like you look at Adonis school and he's got loads of um uh delivery in the calendar section like every day twice a day uh and it's a higher price point and then you got Anime shreds which is you know nothing in the calendar but loads of posts like just emojis and random stuff which is a better model for actually helping more people get in Greater scale and then eventually making more money with that well I guess we'll find out if you guys had to pick one which would you which would you pick well I've watched both of them the anime shoes one's super interesting because it broke a lot of like preconceived ideas like it had no classroom when it launched it was $1 and it grew to 100 Grand a month faster than anything and became number one on Discovery right like real fast and there wasn't a ton of posting in the from the owners it was mostly driven by the members right um plus I know their their about page conversion rate is one of the highest what I'm really curious about is their churn but I guess that time will tell it's new but I think the fact they started low and then increased higher makes it's a good move for churn and I also know churn is low when your price is lower so that will be quite interesting to watch over time and so can it scale I know hams is trying to scale higher in a donor school I I think animation R SK apparently want to scale more both people probably want to do as least work as possible right so there's that and then there's the retention and we'll like over time we'll see like how those two models differ I think what anime shs wasn't just the price though I think what they showed us is that if you if you have like some unique like the fact that it was called anime shreds and the artwork yeah that's that definitely added something um that's kind of what Goose showed us if you make something a little bit more unique and that's just like free performance right like if you can make your landing page conversion double by just theming things and making them a little bit more interesting that for sure is really good like I would encourage you everyone to think about that um but I can't say which model was better anim shs converts way higher but Adon school is way more expensive and they're both making around the same amount per month it'll come down to epcs earnings per click so fundamentally if 100 clicks go to Adon school and 100 clicks go to and this is this to be fair is purely contrasting the business and like the community because traffic sits outside of that because if animation R 10x is their traffic they will become 10 times bigger than than Adonis School independent of what they did inside of the box and so if we're just isolating conversion right price and churn then you look at what's the if I have 100 clicks how much are these clicks worth for this business versus this business and then that literally just gives you the objective measure of which one of these creates the most dollars because I'm kind of at a point where I'm like I you guys start the school games and great they've got that platform for us and then I said okay I'm going to copy what you guys doing with the school games and how you run things and I copied Adonis school and gang because that was the guy at the top right now anime shreds looks like he's going up there and I'm at a point where I'm like which which model is better and which one's actually yeah cuz I'm not that good at business I just see things that work and I copy it you're not bad well there's going to be more there's going to be more so if you keep switching you're going to get in trouble exactly that's where the stick the sticky honestly like even saying it like that me thinking about it is like it's probably neither it's probably the one that that is more like authentic I've got a feeling as to what it might be but you know all right what is it the feeling yeah what my feeling to do with it is it goes a bit opposite there cuz I'm doing 17 lives a a week in my paid at the moment so yeah but my my feelings telling me to put it in the free community but I mean that might be stupid cuz I'm trying to listen to what you guys are saying you're saying no we're just doing one now and it's like so I'm a bit the [ __ ] you know I think if you want to use all that like all that so last last games a ton of people I think it was last games it was like it was like the lives games it was like everybody was doing like Instagram lives it might have been maybe two ago um and that the thing is is like we have to separate promotion from delivery so from a promotion perspective you're doing lots and lots of lives you're making lots of posts you're making all this stuff oh no I understand I got you and so my point is is like I would take all that energy and put it into promotion so you get way more people into your community and and then the thing is is that you if you do 17 lives a week externally it's okay that people don't consume all of them because if they consume one of them then they might buy whereas if you're inside of the community and you're doing 17 they might be like Oh I'm missing out on 16 out of the 17 I'm not I'm not getting the value if it's free your cost is time and so as long as you deliver a return on the time that they spend consuming your content then they got they have a positive exchange with you and so you basically it's like you can never promote too much you can put too much inside of the community and so I would take some of that Juju and put it externally to drive more through the box I think H actually did like the opposite like when he increased the daily coffee to like nearly every day um his turn like reduced massively so I have no idea uh he's messaging me like every day and trying to figure out like all kinds of things around churn at the moment um I my answer to him he kept coming up with ideas my answer to him was talk to your customers I recently was pretty public about this is that like I widened my content for I think either 3 or 6 months I like started sprinkling in some other other pieces I talked about how I eat and like Lea you know how Lea and I run you know being married and things like that and the the the problem is that you do get positive reinforcement from it and so it's like he made some stuff on relationships and then people are like oh this is awesome but the thing is is like the wrong people were saying it was awesome and so what was happening is my audience was growing but it was growing with the wrong people and so I had I mean I had this moment where like sometimes you have these like I had a a friend of mine come into a friend acquaintance i' say flew in and was like um and he probably does 10 million bucks a year and uh and he was like yeah you know um yeah I don't I don't listen to to much of your stuff anymore and he's like yeah I was Hardcore for like six years um and then I I just kind of um I guess it didn't really apply to me anymore he's like I guess I'm not really like your avatar and I was like you're 100's [ __ ] Avatar like you are exactly who I'm going after and then I was like oh I'm a [ __ ] and I just basically it's like you you get you get it's a balance you like you want to listen to customers but you also want to make sure you're listening to the right customers and so um I reoriented all my my content which maybe some of you guys have seen um and it's been 100% back to business has been the the theme that we have internally my guys now um is that if it's not business we don't make it just very straightforward like it can be business adjacent so like if I talk about you know prioritizing like tasks in my day that can have some element of productivity into to it but it's like all my examples are going to be business related and so but by doing that when I looked objectively across metrics for site conversion opin Book Sales applications to the portfolio all of those metrics went up even though the average view per video went down and so it's like I'm not in this to get famous I'm in this to make money cool question um I wonder if anybody has I this might be for everybody but like has anybody done anything to when they do have a turned customer to get them back into to being a customer or send a funny gift you just send a funny gift in a DM ask credit perur you have you seen him yeah ask him for his message he's apparently got some message he DMS people with a funny gift and it gets people to reactivate it say it's like something like leaving so soon is kind of like the vibe is kind of yeah but you want to get the funny gift of course yeah and it's just within school yeah okay so no email SMS or anything like that our sales team has that for uh ghosted leads a Kevin Hart meme that's like I think that might be it I think that's what he's using yeah and uh yeah it like it gets higher response rates than any any message this next clip is about growing the business even Beyond you meaning who are you going to bring on your team to help you get to where you're trying to go and if the people that you're bringing on keep being dumb and making stupid mistakes it's not their fault it's yours and the good news is it's a skill that you can fix and in this part I'll break down how I get the best talent how we recruit them how I hire them and how we train them so they can win hiring related stuffing delegating low stuff just delegating low leverage stask so I can focus on like be specific well for me I know that if I spent 100% of my time on just YouTube making YouTube videos I can get to like 100k or even 150k a month but right now it's like 15 to 20% of my time so just everything else but what is that well building the modules delivering the product um calls appearing on calls everything about Community because you kind of need to do all of those things yeah yeah but like there is a lot of stuff like you know maybe emails like sorting priorities like calendar all of those things like could be outsourced so like I'm wondering in what order like do I hire so I can basically spend 100% of my time on the thing I have the most expertise in well building out the modules is Mo mostly a one-time thing and then once that's done that'll be off your play the emails are 100% Outsource they're plenty of copywriters who can write emails for you and I'd recommend taking somebody who's in the community who knows your voice and can give you like a good V1 draft and then you just tweak it and send it the calls you want to basically just show up like that's I mean more or less that's kind of how we run this like I show up we do the Q&A and then I move on with my life and I treat it just like it's a meeting and I do it on my meetings day cuz I do meetings on Mondays and so we do it on that day cuz it's the lease disruption for how I work and so if you have so I I'm I'm going to have a really big piece about this coming out soon but basically the difference between maker and manager time so if you have deep work that's what I consider maker time and a lot of people in any organization you got copywriters video editors coders like they have they have to just like get really deep into a project and you want to minimize time on meetings as as much as possible so that they can work basically when they're on a meeting they're not working there are managers which is the opposite which is for them being on meetings is working right right uh and coordinating between things and talking to vendors and uh I mean like sales guys customer support like those are those are people who like when they meet is when they work and so those are both fine the problem is when they intersect and so managers start interrupting makers uh from making and the problem is that makers only have 14 time blocks a week you've got one morning block and one afternoon block and that's it like I'm sure when you're making a YouTube video it's not like you can't split it between two meetings right like you need a whole big chunk of time managers though can spread their time in 15minute increment and so they have 20 time slots a day but a Maker only has two and if you take one maker slot up it's like you just killed one 14th of my week right and so there's a disproportionate cost for a manager compared to a maker when it comes to calendaring now you're the entrepreneur because you're like how why is this relevant for me is that you do both and so what's been I me like if I had to bet like my single greatest return on time habit that I have was that the first 6 hours of my day since I was poor has always been zero meetings and it was just that well shoot but people started calling cuz I had Rick and mortar you know gym people started walking in at 5:00 a.m. right so I was able to take you know like lock my door to my office um and I just was like morning sessions I don't I don't participate in but as of 10:00 a.m. I would then start working and being out there so from 4:00 to 10: was my 6 hours every day and then from then on I just knew it was just fires but that still allowed me to move the ball forward so I only got a maker like basically five maker slots during the week but then on Saturday Sunday I got four more so I got nine blocks of time throughout the week that I could do like major big work and so if you can look at orienting your calendar so that I mean now I only have one day which is Mondays where I do any coordination or any calls or anything and the rest of my week is truly empty like truly I can show you my calendar it's empty and that takes time to get to but that's because that's like the team knows that if I have an empty calendar we make more money and so for you you have to try and push as much into that one day as you possibly can and that also means that if someone's like hey I've got this person that you should meet and it's on a Wednesday in the afternoon and it's one meeting you just say no yeah I think I honestly have to do but that's the only time I can make then you're like then I guess we're not going to meet I think I have to do the time study you suggested like the timer every 15 minutes cuz like it's you know it's kind of hard to go in retrospect like where did the entire day go like but like you're working all day but like what was achieved right maker time like when you have a maker block you know exactly what you're going to be doing you have the one thing that you're working on and sometimes it takes five blocks in a row to get that one thing done like what the [ __ ] is the school games like I'll bet you it took more than one maker I know it did but I'm saying and in terms of the people you're hiring like especially at a small business scale like do you is it better to just hire somebody who can get the job decently done or should I wait like until there's like a killer um that's a that's a tough question um I it's a it's a super tough question I would say that it's going to basically you can you can see the Arbitrage between how much more you get back for the time basically so let's say we take let's just do an example let's say you bring in a mediocre email writer if the defici the discrepancy between how good your emails are versus their emails but the time you save not writing the email goes into YouTube for example if you can make up the trade then it's worth doing does that make sense I think you would benefit the most from just a generalist person so someone who's hardcore fan of yours already emerging in the community is already doing the stuff kind of for free probably would be stoked to work with you won't cost you too much money and we'll learn everything as you go with you and they'll just do everything that doesn't make sense for you to do probably like you probably have a few customer support tickets or emails they'll do those I mean M already does that for me but oh you already have someone the issue is that he's still in school so it's like part-time basically so I probably need one more person quit just get him to quit yeah get him to quit he's 16 yeah get him to quit is that legal is that legal um D you're going to learn so much more doing this [ __ ] but his mom would kill me I think well don't don't say don't blame it on him yeah don't blame it on him that's all fight his mom David y'all definitely need group on boarding though ASAP bro that's like the next thing up for y'all that's I I learned group on boardings from the first day one recordings y'all need those ASAP bro yeah another thing is uh you could get an EA like if you have some like tedious tasks like when I got my executive assistant it like saves So Much Time on My play if it's just like tedious things are a little bit simple I don't know if you you probably have like a bunch of stuff that's like simple stuff that you have to do that you could just pay somebody like you know like offshore Talent like you know anywhere from like six to eight bucks an hour to do that yeah David do you have a Setter like anybody in your DMs no bro you need that ASAP too bro a Setter in your DMs and group onboarding calls and your your community is about to your turn will go way down and you'll get a lot of would I give somebody my school password to go I mean you'd probably set up a mini chat account or G like one of these other people you're talking about yeah we're talking about in your uh social media yeah yeah like drive like everything from YouTube to the page cuz it's YouTube oh okay sales do you don't have any following on social media well everything go on YouTube basically like no Instagram no nothing like that I mean not really are you collecting any phone numbers oh no so even in you're free school you don't ask the most simplest funnel possible he's he's younger generation man they don't do this [ __ ] I mean like people are telling me to add email right and like eventually I probably have to add it but like I like my simple funn you know so dude I didn't send emails for 9 years Jim said no emails wow I I I say that to point out at the extreme of like whenever people are like you have to like you don't have like there's no col them hm did you collect them yeah I mean I collect them cuz I like I felt like I had to but like I I did nothing with them like truly nothing that eventually I hired someone and they just send an emails and I just like was like I don't want to read them like I'll kill everyone how many more years do you have in school uh two in high school and then I mean well he's your bottleneck cuz he's school is your bck okay school is my B neck for school yeah your constraint yeah for sure pick one if you're going to get if you're going to get into entrepreneurship then like whatever you know I mean I mean I I I try not to to tell people to quit high school but like I just don't think it like so your fingers worth it to quit just it's just the system is so like what are you learning yeah I mean right not much yeah right you're like so I want to not learn a lot of stuff so that I can learn not much for most of my time I get it like I mean I it's very tough I get that but it's still like yeah if you're going to go to Mid school or like be a lawyer or be an investment banker or work at Goldman Sachs or like maybe you were going to do computer science at Stanford then sure stay in school but if you're not going to do that it's useless yeah if you going if you're going to entrepreneurship then like there is no degree that's required okay yeah just a thought even a business degree is crap oh yeah it's irrelevant yeah I have a I have a similar we well we have a similar problem with delegation so for the promos and for all the engagement that Justin has to do in the community it's hard to find time to like balance both of both those two both of those things and really the big bottleneck is deciding if we're going to have a videographer with us all the time or like hire someone on a project for project basis where do you think works better out of the two um honestly I think he just needs a videographer that he likes a lot I got Sam laska there that's right and know he's with me all the time yeah it's it's been the most difficult part like we've been searing for a videographer for like I mean basically years at this point yeah probably year it's not that hard of a roll feels like feels like new yeah but um but yeah it's it's cuz all them they just they end up dropping off really really quickly I don't know they just they they don't like maybe it's a culture fit thing could be that but like it's been really difficult to find all the roles for sure someone who's going to stick with us travel with us who made you want I feel like anyone in this room would want to do it said there's so much value just being with Alex every day they'll be people in your audience but does he not want someone following him with a camera no no I mean we we definitely would prefer that no but him it's him who yeah he he wants someone following us but like it's it would be Thomas but like Thomas isn't he he's not a videographer like he's he's a he's a different role entirely so he wants someone to follow on he wants someone who like can like have good ban or will push him sometimes like someone who's like a friend gang yeah has you made a post about it oh yeah we make we do do hiring post basically every single month why doesn't he just learn how to use a camera oh that that's actually what I used to do at won't point so why the [ __ ] you don't you pull out a camera I could yeah yeah you're already friends if that's the element and you know how to use a camera I mean [ __ ] you I mean the only thing that's I'm still like thrown off by is like zillions of people have come in and I'll bet you that many of the people who've applied would have been a fit so I just it might just be a weird hiring process you guys have I mean when we when we run our things actually how did you come in I applied for Leela's videographer and I was like you're with me yeah um yeah should he had Jason I agree on the feeling P though if someone's going to be following you around all the time like the vibe is more important than the skill yeah than anything the skill is not the thing it's just the like Vibe of having them with you all the time Daniel asked me on the last question in the interview he was like well what's what's like cuz I was telling him I was like listen I'm going to be like hey we're going to do this big thing and you're going to set up and then I'm going be like nah just kidding and it's going to happen all the time and then also uh like you're going to have plans and then you're going to have to cancel them last minute cuz we go late and like basically it's just going to be chaos and I can be in a bad mood and I can be tough sometimes and I just like painted that picture he was like God it I'm here for it but um he's like what do you like I'm really experienced I think you were like I'm a really high caliber videographer what do you need a professional for yeah what do you need a professional for is what he asked me and he's like what's the most important thing for you to me and I was like like I really thought about it and I was like you like me that's really it did did you uh start off sorry what was your name Daniel Daniel did you start off like absolute Pro with the with cameras no I had to learn how to use Cameron when you started when you started started with Alex I'm referring to when you started with Alex were you already good oh yeah no so I I say that because like I'll bet you that there's like people in that list if you have had thousands of people apply who are videographers like there's definitely somebody in there who's an exceptional videographer and so for me I honestly like I am I am grateful that Daniel has a skill that he has and can like edit bangers and do all sorts of like he's a weapon he can do lots of things but like for me if his skill was half of what it was but but I like him as much as I like him that would have been enough this is just like your skills are just bonus for me um but it was just like we have such a sick Vibe on the on the media team I think we have a sweet like the team's awesome um and so like I've had a videographer in the past that I and nothing wrong with the guy I just like wasn't I didn't like look forward to you know what I mean it was just like work like okay sit down and like every Court stop and it came out in the came out in the footage and so like I have to look forward to there should feel I should feel no friction or no hesitation to having Daniel around like I'm not worried if he's around if I'm saying I don't have to edit myself um and like that is number one you've got he's got to like me and I've got to because it's both it's both ways cuz he like if you don't like someone you can capture it very differently like on some level like you can make someone look very different if you don't like like them and um and so it has to be both directions like both people have to have to get along with each other that that's probably something we ever really looked at we cuz sometimes we want like really really nice stuff it's like mov level you know with the SC motion shots and whatnot and obviously when we look at the application I prioritize liking a person and the thing is is like I bet you if there was something that we're like hey can you learn Adobe something you'd be like sure I like it'll take me a couple weeks but I'll figure it out and like if you have that type of person it's like I just it's so much harder to find someone you like than it is to find someone who has the base skill at least in my opinion with this role so I would just I would prioritize someone that Justin likes and then that's it and then from there like the other skills I remember where you mentioned this I was watching some of your content you said you been kind of made a system for how when someone was filming you they're nodding they're bringing you your nicotine and all that kind of stuff y so y all the I mean Daniel's always got Nicorette caffeine water Gatorade he's got he's a full full full service um at all times he's always ready I was putting that up there yeah yeah no it's super awful and like after every every recording session it's kind of like on a foul shot for basketball like everyone everyone pounds afterwards like it's just like we always do that like w like you guys can't see it cuz you guys are looking at me but I can see them and like they're nodding the whole time while were're filming because they know that that cuz when we thought activities right what are the things cuz so Caleb who runs the whole team he was obviously Higher One and so he had the camera first and um that was the first time I had a vrf that I really liked and I was like oh man like Caleb's cool as [ __ ] like this like this feels this isn't this is easy right and I was like what makes it and then so then Caleb obviously moved up and then he stopped being at the filming session so we had you know two or three guys there at the filming sessions and I was like man this feels heavy like what's like why does this feel different and so then we had to backtrack and be like what what does he do that is different than what other people do other people were like the vibe is like Vibe [ __ ] I don't care what does he do and what he did was he would nod while I was while I was going and after every filming thing he was like that was [ __ ] awesome like sick that was so dope and then he also listened and he had really engaging questions that he'd be like so how does that relate to this or how does that so the followup questions were great and they could slice that up and that made for really good content because the the questions he had was questions that the audience had and so it's just looking at like what are all the little micro things and then you make that into a checklist and that's why I think most people can't teach anything is because they don't get it down to like what are the behaviors and so now the team I mean the whole team knows that when they film it's like a whole thing did you like buy out a bunch of people or like no we do so we so I'll tell you the quick process and then we'll we'll move to a different topic but um we do the big application gave a big raw file told everybody they had 48 hours to submit uh the raw for that way everybody's work off the same thing cuz if everybody can just pull from whatever then the quality of the content is going to be a huge Factor whereas if everyone pulls from the same raw the quality of the editor is going to be the thing that shines through and so um this is from the editing perspective if we're doing videographers then yeah it's going to be way more about Vibe like in terms of our our Dynamic um but for editing uh then they would submit and so from 1,200 we got 60 subm just to give you Ana like 5% of people actually submitted Riley did you come from from one of our contests uh no I was reached out to but it was pretty similar process like applied gave me W file edited yeah and so then they turn it in and then um you know Caleb would look at all of them and be like these three guys are sick and then they'll interview those guys and then however many of them are cool we out that's fundamentally how we do it like we test for skill for editing we test for skill and then we test for Vibe because it's way easier to go like from 1,200 down to a much smaller with from skill um from a Vibe perspective um what was the process for you for videographer stuff I did like four interviews actually five interviews um one with Caleb two with Frank and then one with you and then one with you was intense I was like this is a test everything's test you had like one really tall chair and one small chair is's like pick one I was like I'm s a small chair hilarious that wasn't a test yeah yeah that's funny um so yeah hopefully that give you a little bit Insight yeah the sure yeah it's really all about the chair sizes this is what matters yeah but Al like I needed somebody who wasn't going to be trying to compete with me you know what I mean um I just like I don't I didn't want that energy I wanted somebody who's like super laidback and Daniel's as laidback as they get when you didn't did gym launch you said that you don't do emails like you didn't do emails how did you nurture your clients then or like kept in contact with them um you mean leads yeah I just got more of them okay I'm being dead serious like I mean like there were there many things I probably should have done I just every time someone's like do you want to start emailing I was like h no and I didn't want to give it to somebody else until eventually they were like can we please hire someone to just do this and I just didn't look at it I'm just I'm so particular with written withu written word it's the it's my primary way of communicating it's like my like people despite the fact that everyone on the internet sees me on video like my books are better in my opinion than anything I create but it's also because I spend more time on them than anything else and so when I see someone write I'm like this makes no sense this is completely unclear why do like why do you exist yeah but also I think I kind of understand your question a bit and I'm kind of like horos in this way is if you've got something that working if you've got something that's working that isn't email and you can just keep increasing the volume of what you're doing then who cares and that was it we just kept spending more money kept making more money so I was like I could do that or I could make more ads and Crush yeah I mean honestly I think Sam and I are so aligned with this which is just like find something that works do it as much of it as you possibly can and eliminate everything else in real life that's not that and that also includes all your personal life stuff like like this was a theme of the whole last talk if you guys all heard it we talked for like an hour maybe more on this one topic of like everything that you have like cooking cleaning laundry getting your car filled up with gas like all of this stuff if you know that you can make more money with your time than it than it cost you to get someone else to do that then you should do that and then you'll be amazed at how much extra time you have if you're cleaning your house or preparing your meals that's going to be the best thing you learn from this event is to to get someone else to do that cleaning and meal prep and groceries is like the lowest hanging fruit so I calculated this ship on based on us averages so just the big three which is laundry cleaning and food related those together are 96 hours a month on average it's like I just found you two and a half full work weeks of time but and also that doesn't include switching costs of like the cost of time of like cleaning up like cleaning up after you eat and well thinking about when you're going to do it and what you're going to eat and groceries and what you're going to buy and putting them back in the shelves and taking the bags like all that [ __ ] I really want like emphasize like the whole like personal chef like housekeeper stuff like I haven't been a coach for long my first 6K pay in full I got like an in-house Health team which is like a housekeeper a chef and like a dietician and stuff it's crazy but they're not that expensive like I pay my I had a maid and I pay her 150 bucks twice a week to come over and I have a meal plan I give it to her and she shops for the food it's all Whole Foods they come over they make it I have like 20 meals in my fridge at all times they're like amazing good like like Latino whipped up food it's great and uh I was able to take like three more sales calls a day and that's a big reason why I Haven won the school games like that was huge and you also feel amazing about it it's like it was like it seemed like it's like super luxury investment like oh shark has a private chef but it was it's 1,500 bucks a month like if you do the math it's 96 hours it is $1,500 a month that's literally like I have a big presentation on it it's $15 and like 16 cents per hour if you can make more than $156 per hour with your time you should do that it has nothing to do with luxury it has everything to do with like what is my return on time and like you can just ignore every poor person who says otherwise this is kind of for both of you probably you Sam as well definitely Sam um but I guess like when you're building you know a startup um obviously you know you might have sometimes you might have a little bit lack of capital A little lack of resources I guess how do you get a players to work for you and with you and how do you like structure comp structures and all that so it like you know go for it when you don't have any money no no no no not we no no no you maybe you're trying to get somebody who's you know making decent money you know already or you're wanting to get you know we're making money but like you want to get an a player team um but you're still a startup you're not you know yeah well it's really hard it will probably take a long time you'll probably want to quit but but eventually like something you'll just there'll be a chemistry I think and a perfect fit with someone and you just kind of have to give it enough time until that thing happens and it and you also have to offer something unusual like for me it was offering the like co-founder title to Daniel cuz I knew when I found him that that was what I needed to use so programmer yeah might yeah um and you know when I found him it was like the perfect balance because he just wanted to code he said I love to code I can build anything all I need is someone who can dream and he was like if we've if you've got some like money and you know what to build and you can help us get customers and and well I needed it was code like then we're good and we we had like a good chemistry how did yall meet if you don't mind me asking I did 600 interviews did you have a like a a hedg hunter so all I did for a year how did you find how did you get the interviews did you work with like a I worked with many different recruiters hacking news like I tried honestly bit of everything plus I had to hire five of the wrong people too so it's not like I just got it right like it was the most brutal thing I ever did do you do you have like I I hear people talking about doing more interviews do you feel like there's ever like a sense of uncertainty like after you get to a certain point you're like damn option number one two and three are good or whatever like what do you think yeah like some people I swore were great and they weren't at all and I'm sure some people were great and I didn't see it and I missed them but how can I know about those um but in the end like Daniel my co-founder he was like there was chemistry and I think I didn't I ignored I was too logical back then but I think I've come to realize now that the chemistry is really important and I pay way more attention to that now ultimately you're not going to know until you hire them right but you just have to talk to a lot of people too I feel like there's there's been this case where I feel like everybody wants to be an entrepreneur you know so like when I'm trying to you know hire people it's almost like they ra they're like i' rather do that myself or rather do what kind of person uh just you know uh I guess like high level people for a growth partner agency so like somebody who can like be a growth partner essentially or be a you know I think I think me and Chris's problem is we're unicorns and and we provide our people with like we cover all the bases so we need more people like us yeah and then yeah so we even we've even talked to some people that we know aren't making you know that much money and like hey man I'll pay you triple what you're making right now you know I'm like managing School communities and they're like I'd rather do my own thing and it's just like wait what you know what I mean it's like a disconnect I think sometimes so I don't know like it's like I can't yeah the money is not the thing right right absolutely cuz you know when with us we're like competing with Google NASA SpaceX Tesla so everyone's trying to throw money at them MH and they show us their DMS on LinkedIn and stuff it's insane like the amount of recruiters right um so money can't do it like it has to be something else right in your case do you think it's like the environment well what when I got my co-founder or when we get people now like everybody well the hardest one is getting the co-founder in the beginning because you don't have anything so right that's the hard one but with time now the way we get it is through internal referrals so if we have great people and they've worked at places like coin most of our talent comes from coinbase and riot games because we've got some of their best engineers and they know everyone and when they tell they're like hey how you going over Riot or coin or okay burn out dude this place is badass where I am and they trust that person because that person isn't a recruiter they're the probably the best software engineer these other people have worked with and so the word means a lot what about people like that aren't cerss though like what about like you know Andrew or like Matt you know oh that that's a different side of the business so that comes from your customers so Matthew who's running our podcast he came from the community and like he showed he was making podcast episodes for free and then he flew to the first school games he paid for it himself he's from Ireland like who on indeed is going to do that I don't know if you've ever tried indeed it's so bad but yeah but you look from them within I think like Kirby was in my Mastermind and then he made this free community called synthesizers he was one of he was on the leader boards for school Community right so's like okay he's committed then Kirby hired wictor where's wictor there he is because he was his most engaged member in synthesizers so you see and then wcta hired this guy called Nas cuz he was someone who connected with him on school too and now Nas is referring someone I love it yeah I think that's what we're hoping for right like whenever you're like don't like with that being said we don't have the best people in the world but we're we're kind of rooting through internal it starts with one yeah but if you don't get that one you'll never get anyone else we have a few good really good people I'd say but yeah have you pushed them for referrals um yeah but I think I think the big thing is get getting the high level people so we have really good like um executors not really good leaders that's one thing that we we have like I'm I'm literally I'm managing like I feel like I have to run like five meetings a day almost you know for our team so it's just like excessive it's a lot yeah it's excessive so I would challenge the structure then the vision for the business has to be big enough that smart people can fit their dreams inside of it and so if you want break then you need people who like they need to be able to believe that their dreams can come true within your vision if it's again if it's like yeah we've just got a couple groups that we're running and we're making money then it's like that doesn't like really get me motivated if I'm intelligent I'm CU like the best people have there's no lack of opportunity for the best people they have tons like you have to think about this is It's a totally different game like you're if you're accustomed to taking people who like I really want a job all of those people are irrelevant you have to be people who are like in some ways you're competing for them so the more you're competing for a prospect like selling them and so if you feel like like I'll tell you the funny one is like if you're interviewing people where you're like sell me on why I should take you if you say that to somebody who's actually really talented they'll be like I'm good like they just like they just don't like I you have to respond to this offer within 12 hours it's like okay well I think you hit the nail right there for me like their Vision has to be our vision needs to be big enough for their dreams to you have to be able to say like what we want to do is we want to make music money into the standard for this and then they have to believe with a decent amount of certainty that it's possible and so like how you guys present like you are absolutely selling them and so like I think Drew this about on on a past one but everybody here understands you know lead generation lead nurture sales onboarding and then you know retention Ascension right that's the how you do with customers right this is the exact same process for an employer you generate applications you nurture applications the sale is the interview you onboard the employee and then either retain them or Ascend them it's the same thing and so you basically have to understand the acquis like this is when we get into scaling because everyone's like two or three people are like what's scaling is it's just where the inflow of talent into the business matches the inflow of customers into the business and you have to have an exceptional conversion process for attracting Talent this is where brand counts double it counts once on the front end for customers and again on the back end for talent and it becomes either a virtuous cycle or a vicious cycle either destroys your business you have a bad brand because what do you think what like what um like great talent will look at your reviews and be like oh yeah never mind they would work at a good place so I guess and last question I guess what what would be the best way to like acquire Talent is it just building a personal brand like in our field of work cuz I don't think it's necessarily like I can't I don't feel like I can find the right people on LinkedIn or something like that you know for what we're trying to do it needs to be people who are kind of like already kind of entrepreneurs or people who are in more of like the sales or manager manager field it really depends on what role you're looking for but I can promise you that very smart people are on LinkedIn do you know how I um I I looked I got invited to speak at something and I looked at who else was speaking there and I saw hor mosy was speaking there and I was all right there's my opportunity that the first time we met in person yeah honestly so cool was that one year before I spoke about doing a deal but you have to like be strategic sometimes yeah and then so you have to kind of do this old school networking thing which I [ __ ] hate because it's like the only time I've ever done that the deal is like the one deal to never do that again um but yeah you kind of have to do that I had to start going to like these software things I had to start to meet some software Engineers I had to learn about their world I had to ask people about why does what do you hate as a software engineer what do you like what makes a good company what makes a Bad Company you have to like learn everything about it and network and do that it it really sucks honestly but if you're serious about it I knew there was no way I could build school without this person so I delayed starting it by a year just to find the person yeah so I was like I'm not even going to start until I find them like that's how essential I knew they will that's why I tell everyone to not do software it's just because the scale of how difficult it is to actually do a right is so hard that like no one basically no one does it right even when you know even if you know what you're doing most people can't do it and most people who are quot in the info world are like oh my info thing is INS sellable so I'm going to build software and they just think that like white labeling high level means they had a software company um like but I mean right and or they create some widget that someone else can duplicate in 5 seconds that they did off with an offshore developer that like if it actually did work then that developer would hold you Ransom and then what like they just don't play it out two steps and the code [ __ ] anyways and it's all it all sucks like yeah don't do it yeah and someone were like you're just you don't want us to succeed that's why cuz you're you're doing so I was like no man I saw that Sam put five years in I was like great okay I saw the metrics I was like okay this is legit I spent all my money and it still wasn't enough yeah I had to spend like twice that again yeah thank you guys for that too by the way that that's going to help a lot I apprciate this for real yeah I mean the personal brand thing is just good for recr like if you have one it's great it helps a lot um but at the end of the day if the if the if the business that you're trying to build solves a real problem and you really genuinely care about the problem if you find someone else who also cares about that problem they will be more likely to work with you like that's fundamentally it what are you sorry last question fun what do you think about creating a an offer to train people to do what you are trying to eventually staff for like how I'm growing yeah like you know like in training there was a point there was a point in time I had a closer program I was training closers and I was Staffing them you know what I mean and then I was I stopped doing that cuz there's so many closer training programs but right now I really need grow Partners people who can lead and manage our clients and kind of oversee everything what do you think about like I know there's a growth operator thing but they're not you know like in my mind like they don't have all the skill sets necessarily what if someone you know created a program to train people I don't think you create another business of software role okay depends if it's like I know with a software engineer no one's going to be any decent in 10 years maybe a prodigy in six or seven but like there's just no shortcutting it like I mean my co-founder's done 20 so the years matter and the same is true with a lot of things like there's just years so like but some other things might be different like setting okay yeah you can teach that closing yeah you can probably teach that but these more high level strategic things yeah that ain't happening like it took me [ __ ] 10 years like so are you going to wait 10 years is no yeah it's it's like fundamentally every skill is trainable the question is whether it's worth the return on effort and the resources to train someone with it if you break things down enough you can train someone to do anything it's just that if someone lacks has zero meta skills they don't know how to read they don't know how to write they know how to talk you could teach someone to do all that stuff it's just why bother so I'd rather take someone who's already here and then just nudge them if I can with you know proper training that just Bridges the gap between all the skills they come in with and then applying that to my business you got it cool appreciate it yeah always I mean the people is the reason that most internet marketers in general can't make money I'm sorry they they make money but they don't make like big money is that they just can't they can't they don't know how to operate people and that's usually because they need like a right hand a true right hand who can who's as good as them and like Lea will never get the credit that she deserves and that's fine um but like the reason that all of our stuff is so big is because she's so good at at building like she's an unbelievable Builder and so like the culture of the team is Rock Solid I mean the guys will tell you like Lila really runs the like Ila runs acquisition. comom like I I really like she really does she does like Lea runs everything like I I mean I told you I have an empty calendar I can't have an empty calendar and and also have a business that's running unless someone else is actually doing it Lela takes 15 meetings a day she operates she's she she's coordinating things between different departments she's checking on portfolio company she's having you know one once of people who having some sort of emotional breakdown about some craziness whatever um she handles all that with a smile you know what I mean and so but like I I I was we were talking earlier like I capped at $3 million a year and then when Lela came in 24 months later I took home 17 million in income net and so the difference was that she liked people and I tried to avoid them and that was the problem and so she her like Lea's genuine Vision in life is to build a company that people love working at that's her whole like the whole reason that she like she gets up like her internal mission is to build a company that people love being at every day and so her vision just fits within my vision and so I recruited her to do it but like if we didn't do stuff that she liked we'd like she wouldn't build it so I very much like especially the more talented the people that you bring on the more you like like they don't need pushing like they know what they're doing you just need to make sure that they're doing it in the direction and you kind of do this yeah the amount of training that you have to give someone is inversely proportional to the skills that they come in with so the more spe basically the the less skilled the person the more specific the instructions so like Sam could basically just be like hey can you just promote school a lot and I'd be like yeah he's not like hey could you make make these posts and write this copy and send these emails and run ads and make the hooks like this like that exchange has literally never occurred like I don't even know if Sam sees the ads before before they they go out Moi takes me the other day he was like when does the activation stuff come out and I said last Thursday no like for real like I already did it and then he was like I've seen this and I was like yeah I've already been thinking about that we've got something coming like we don't even I've already thought about the next four things and we've got things ready so by the time he has the idea I'm like yeah we got it don't worry do your thing and then I'm like cool let me tell you what what I'm doing on the media side it's like oh [ __ ] great like these are all the things that I'm ramping up this the system we're putting in place like we changed our Cadence like things like that it's like oh dope I don't even want to think about YouTube so like if I had to tell him stuff oh my God like yeah but it's good to divide it like that cuz I can just focus on this stuff he can focus on that stuff Kirby can focus on his stuff we have very good like division like that yeah the amount of Direction you need to give someone is inversely proportional to the skill they have yeah someone could just be like hey can you build this company and be like sure people will complain like if people it's always a sign of noticed when people complain there's no communication have you has anyone had this as an issue um like with teams maybe a lot of you don't have teams yet but bad communication communication sometimes it's always the complaint yeah I found it's interesting that one because you don't really need to communicate a whole lot when you get the right people like hosi said like a couple of words and I was like don't worry I got it like what happen like right but sometimes if you hire the wrong person there's no amount of communication that can ever make it work and it's exhausting and just still doesn't work and I think I understood this I think I told this at one of the previous ones but how you know what a good culture is is this story of Google in the early days so Larry Page searched for something in the ads that showed up were not relevant to the words he typed in he took a screenshot he printed it off he got a red marker and he wrote These ads suck he walked over to the engineers and he pinned it up on the wall and he tapped it and one of them walked over and picked it Off the Wall stayed up all night that night and invented AdSense which is their which has made them hundreds of billions chill so he didn't sit down with them and be like look I think you need to do this and this and this and maybe this he just said these ads suck right is that clear communication I mean to him it was no but that's what good talent is you can just be like this thing they do this yeah you don't even have to say do this you can say this sucks sort it out like and then they'll they'll be on it or they might have already preempted what sucks cuz they've already been thinking about it so I always remember that when people say oh like you need more meetings or more communication like there wasn't a meeting first of all right there was there was slapping something on the wall yeah one of the most difficult things this is like I think this from an entrepreneur perspective in terms of development is like has anyone here had another business before this yes okay did you achieve in this business what you achieved in your last business like in like from how long it took you to get to that level in your the business before versus how long it took you to get to that level with this business was it way faster and so a lot of the reasons is because you already beat the bosses up to that level so it's kind of like you're quickly retracing your steps and then you get to a level that you don't to your level of incompetence the difficulty the the thing that takes the longest in entrepreneurship is figuring out what good looks like at each level and it's one of those things that's really hard to translate like you see the billionaires on stage and they're just like I you know get great people and you're like sure but the thing is is that connecting what great people to them looks like in their mind and what you think great people are that is an ocean apart and so I mean I tell this story and same when I was talking about this last time but like I when we started meeting with private Equity firms uh to to to look at transacting with gym Lodge I we'd have these super long tables that were these boardrooms and I'd see their team all the way on this side I saw my team all the way on this side and I would just kind of sit there and listen to like the questions that they were asking and the responses that my team had to be fair the team that we had had built $100 million plus company pre covid obviously I sold during Co which actually hurt my valuation but not the point um so they built a $100 million company which is cool but when I saw this the town on this side I was like oh that's why these guys are going to make $3 billion over the next 5 years this team and it was such a stark contrast in terms of the level of talent again not disrespecting my team it was just such a difference that it was literally like after that immediately I was like my whole bar was just reset in terms of the caliber of the people that even existed in the world and everything was like how on Earth do I get those people to work for me and so like right now some of you have like one person who's like man I couldn't live without that person there's somebody who's literally 10 times better than that person that exists right now and it's just trying to figure out what you need to do to get them on your team but the problem that takes so long is looking at what good talent in general looks like but even when it gets R specific like Sam had to do all this research to figure out like how do good software Engineers talk like what do they like what do they want and so some of you guys are at a point where you need to like start hiring a sales director something like that like what happens is like this is the entrepreneural journal it looks like you bring someone on you talk to a bunch of people and then you're like I think this guy's good you bring him in and he sucks and that takes six months away from the growth that you would have had because your sales team drops and this guy sucked you put bad processes in then you got to fix the process you got to fire the people that guy hire cuz he sucked anyways and then you're like shoot I'm going to try again you bring the next guy in and then sometimes it happens again and you're like wow this sucked and then the third time and sometimes this takes a year or two years and then you're like I now know and you get lucky and you get one who actually works and you're like oh this is what a great sales director looks like and so the next time you go through your entrepreneur JY like you go right to there and then you're like shoot I don't know what a good customer success person looks like and then you try again and so it's like however quickly you can work through that so you can start recognizing the pattern of a what good looks like in general and then B what it what good looks like for a specific role that's how quickly you move through the levels that's been my experience with this and I wish I try and do everything I can to try and translate that into the stories that I tell with the content but sometime it's really tough because people like nod but like that is that is the secret sauce like that is it is being able to recognize like what a good growth partner looks like what a good even a good agency I've have good I have good agencies that we work with now the vast majority of them 95% of them are dog [ __ ] some of you guys run [Laughter] them so you know what I'm saying so like that's that's that's that's the pattern recognition that's the highest value thing that you end up learning as an entrepreneur is what what good looks like so obviously like I'm I'm doing a lot of the management for our community and that includes like making posts from from as Jus and obviously Justin has like lots of businesses you know like construction he's going to be like on helicopter soon like shooting whatever so and how how could we maximize his time within the community cuz right now he's doing two calls two calls a month I mean I mean if you if you modeled what I mean what my contribution right now is I do one call a week and we do this once a month that's my contribution and then I ad hoc look at you know I poke around and I see what people are asking and then I end up usually just like I haven't committed to anything I just write one or two posts a week sorry a month that are just whatever is kind of top of mind you said like on the calls that you do right like you treat it like a meeting like a on the calls for the school games like the weekly or the monthly call you just kind of sit there and just like treat it like a yeah they're Q&A they're like this when he said like a meeting he batches it on the day that he does all of his meetings yeah I do my school call on my day where I have all my meetings so it's not as disruptive as if he was like I don't know writing a book and then he had to switch gears to do a zoom and then switch back into the book that's that's going to take more than an hour or like I can't record like if we're going to go record you know some YouTube videos or something and that's my whole warning I can't like start recording YouTube videos and be like hold on guys and then like go take a call and then go back to record like it just doesn't work and Kirby's there to make it less taxing on hosi so hosi doesn't have to scan the chat or pick the questions yeah so like if you're going to do a call have someone like Kirby on so you're Kirby in this like I would just literally model what what he what what Kirby does on a regular basis and just just replace roles it's same same setup and you record them and it turns into content yeah I also record them too so I so so Daniel's but you got I mean actually shoot you guys have probably seen some of them me yelling at the at the laptop I don't know if you see him on Instagram but um some of them done really well um but he's right there I've got my webcam here and so those get clipped into content for me so it's like I'm doing delivery for the people you know for the school Community but I'm also getting clips for marketing and those get those get hammered out so it's you get double do you record your course yeah and I post them in a call recordings with time stamps as well in the classroom page you make content with it are you guys recording it with another camera like for we we could make content with it we we haven't done it yet I'd recommend it because like you'll get the I'll bet you you get the most heated yeah you get like super heated I get I mean I get heated on the calls cuz if you can use it for many purposes it's a much more efficient use of time yeah cuz that 1 hour made content it bought in customers it delivered value it made a recording do you know what I mean and then people also ask like if you think about this publicly if you're promoting a snippet people are like how do I get on those calls MH and then he just yeah people really like when like Justin gets really passionate about like things that he's just interested in on a daily basis so yeah those those those probably those moments will probably be the best reals or whatever yeah all my best Clips are just moments where I just freak out at someone so this next part's super important it's about client and Avatar selection so one of the big reasons a lot of businesses suck to actually operate is that you have too many different customers who want too many different things and so you had to promise lots of different things to everybody to get them to buy but now you got to deliver on all those different things to all those different people and so learning to sell and specifically learning how to sell the right people and say no to the wrong people is a skill that will absolutely unlock growth and profit in the business because you'll get more of the right people because you'll talk to them and you'll Ward away the ones that suck I have one little question how do uh how did you and kale meet or you know how did CL really same story that's so cool man he had a clay his gym was losing money he was working a 9 to-5 job he would work from 5:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. at his gym teaching sessions he'd go to his job at 9:30 or whatever work from 9:00 to 5 go back to his gym teach all the evening sessions 5 6 7 8 his wife had just had a baby she was pregnant with her second child all of his income from his primary business went into the gym that was losing money and they had nothing left over and so he called me up or he didn't call me up and like he responded to an ad and I got on the sales call and and um I was like all right it's whatever it was at the time he was like he was honestly the first 10 customers I sold um and he was like I I would buy this I need this um but I just gave my last 10 grand or my only 10 grand to this coach that was going to teach me how to have an online Fitness business and I was like do you have an online Fitness business and he was like no I it didn't it didn't work or whatever I was like well what if we just made your gym make money would that be more he's like yes I'm fine with just making my gym make money and so um I asked him put 1,000 bucks down and he like put $1,000 onto a credit card or something that's so beautiful bro that's so that's sick he made $38,000 in his first 30 days I I think I think that's the coolest story in the world whenever you give some like give somebody the chance to buy an at a thousand knowing you you probably never even let nobody buy anything no everybody started a th000 bucks for the first three years wow cuz all gym owners are broke all gym owners are broke and so it's a th000 down th000 a week so the thing is is that and this is what everyone in the entire like the entire infos space still doesn't get because everyone's like my programs it's like no it's not it's not it's not the average gym that still to this day goes through gym watch makes over $20,000 in additional new Revenue in their first 30 days average average first 30 days we track it because it's such an important metric for us and the reason that we have to do that is because they don't have the money to pay me what I want to get paid and so it's was like I know that the system's going to on average on average triple your profit will go from 36,000 to 112,000 in profit net of our fees is in after you've paid us you'll make 112,000 that's the average over a year but when you're broke it doesn't matter because you're still broke and you can't buy anything so it's like put 1,000 bucks down and I still needed him to have money for ads so he had like $3,000 I like keep two for ads give one to me and you're going to run this ad which is a video of Ila you're going to run this ad to this landing page that I've made you're going to put your logo at the top and then when these leads come in I was like you're going to call them like you need to feed your family which you do and so it's exactly what he did and so um once the you know the second payment came in and I'd give them like a 14-day delay because most of them didn't have any money and so they would pay it they collect cash from the people that were coming in and they could make the payments and then I gave them incentive in the first 30 days to prepay the rest of the thing at a discount and so that way it turned $1,000 down into 16 Grand in the first month and so my LTV to CAC and my cash flow in terms of acquisition was super strong um and then like we ran that we ran that for very very very long time I think like a year and a half ago I think um after after I sold and Kel took over he switched it from a front end and back into just selling a year for 36 I think is what it is um and so that's what they do now and it's just uh they bill every 28 days and I think it's $29.97 or something like that a month so it's you know 3K down or whatever and um and that's and that's fundamentally what happens but like I'm just saying like the reason the niching is is useful is that when you Niche down you can productize the delivery like there's no generic business quote Consulting that can ever deliver as consistent of an outcome as a very Niche business can because imagine if you had to do it generically you'd be like okay come up with an offer make something free and you'd want to run it to a lead gen page and then when the leads come in you want to call them quickly you have to talk in generalities whereas I was like here is the ad this is the landing page this is how you set up your lobby when they walk in say these words this is the price you're going to sell at and by the way here's the delivery for it here's the mail plans here's the cookbook here's the eating out guide here's all that stuff you can put your logo on it you can make it yours I already spent all the time doing it and the sales training they went through was the sales training I put my trainers at my gyms through which by the way my sales training was less than 1 hour and so there's all this closure training out there that's hundreds of hours long but when I needed to get guys to close it was 60 Minutes it was like this is what you say to them it wasn't psychology it wasn't like so we want to increase their demand I was like when they walk in the door say this and then after they agree say the next thing and if they don't agree you don't move on until they agree then you go to the next thing and then here's where you ask for money that was it cuz I wasn't trying to make a course to impress people I was trying to make a training that op one a result and again I did turnarounds for 2 years and so like I had to give stuff that to busy gym owners who hadn't paid me cuz the the turnaround business they didn't pay me so I had to make the training for them like how do you do nutrition was 130 minute video that was it I was like this is the color template weigh them in divide their weight by 10 which means you just move the decimal I like had to break it down I was like okay so means you have 21 food units put the first eight over here this is all their protein then you can tell them you can scatter the rest between carbs and fat you just do the yellow list got it great have them take a picture with it in front of them that way their numers there put it against a wall like this like there's just there's nothing they could mess up and because of that because all the variables were controlled they all got a consistently good outcome and they just took a long time to do cuz I had actually done it at multiple locations and then 30 plus turnarounds in different markets so also when I get the customer who is like this won't work in my market I'm like I've got five other gyms on your block but people are very limited you know I had a I had one of the gym turnarounds that I did I launched the gym this is important just for your customers I launched the guy's gym and when I decided to switch to licensing I called back all the guys who hadd done the turnarounds for I was like these will be the easiest Sal they literally saw me crank 100 grand out of their gym in 3 weeks called one of the guys up and he's like how do I know it's going to work I was like I just did it in front of you like I you saw me meet with 250 people and he's like well I don't know if it's going to work worked for me and I was like you will never win but like some people are like that and I was like it's not worth the time just move on it's a really specific situation so like so I started as a BDC offer right but my top 10% of guys who like really kill it are the existing agency owners usually stuck at like a certain range and I install like the closer infrastructure and all that stuff how if I wanted to explore that and make that to 100% how would I deal with my existing 40 guys who got in at a BC offer who have this like expectation that I that I could like the B Toc offer is what a make money like a generic how to start an agency offer yeah yeah I would get rid of those yeah well same thing with this way just like again LTV to CAC like how much does it cost to acquire them how much like when when people were trying to decide between avatars which by the way the concern you have is the probably the number one most common concern that people have in business it's also one of the biggest leverage points that you can have is picking the right Avatar so you're in this overarching space of agency but if you like almost always when you go up Market you make more money almost always and so when you deal with somebody who's a higher quality Prospect they pay more they're lower maintenance because they already have more skills coming into it um and so forth right and so if you just look at CU I had a I had a hair salon uh lady asked me this question so she was like I have I'm getting 17 to1 um or sorry 24 to1 uh selling uh um hair stylist on my extension technique so she had some extension technique that was like extensions are like two grand and it and if you and she had a technique to do it in like 30 minutes so they could make a ton of money in a very short period of time and she's like and I have business consulting or coaching or whatever which has like 11:1 um LTV toac she was like so should I focus on like my business coaching offer or should I just sell this hair extension just like teaching how to do hair extensions which is not really a business offer at all it's just like how to it's like a hair thing right and so I just boiled it down to LTV to cak times Tam so it's like if you have crazy LTV attack and you have a massive Market which she did there's way more hair stylists who don't want business coaching and just want to learn more about hair so it's like you have both more customers and a bigger discrepancy between what it cost you and what you make and so then the only thing is just n and if there is a massive market then you can crank n as in the number of units sold by a timeon and so I was like and from there you can cross sell the coaching thing if you want to the business Consulting but stop running two two front ends focus on this one that you have the greatest Arbitrage on smash the [ __ ] out of that and then all your focus becomes on ascension and cross cell does that make sense so for you I would probably like you're going to have to Sunset the the 40 guys over time if you are better at delivering a result like go where the value is as in whoever you can help the absolute most is who I think you should sell to so if you're like I have three different people I help it's like well which of them like this happens in um I had a lady who had tile business so she sold tiles like a very generic business she's like I sell to homeowners I sell to uh designers interior designers and i s a home builders three completely separate avatars I was like okay which one's worth the most to you she's like well homeb Builders are pretty much just only care about price I was like okay well then maybe you don't sell to them interior designers she was like these people um they're they bring me customers all the time like they come with their the person they're doing the living room for whatever and then you know the people who just own homes he's like they're you know they're kind of like oneoff sales but they have the most margin I was like okay I was like which one do you like doing the most she was like the interior designers I was like how many people does an interior designer bring you on average per year and she was like 30 I was like okay so she was calculating it at a transactional level rather than at the res at the interior designer level I like so how much does it cost you to get I was like how do you get interior designer she's like I do Outreach for a week once a month and I get like three to five more interior designers who come in I walk the facility and then I showare them what we do um and this I mean this business was doing 7.6 million Topline and like 5 million in iida murdering it um and so I was like cool so you now are the the interior designer is now your avatar so you need to become the interior designer de you need to make their life amazing don't sell to home builders don't sell to home home owners just interior designers that are people that you've got on your roster and and then all you do is you go from having 30 interior designers that send you business all the time to 300 and that's it and there's 300 interior designers every setting and so all she has to do and she already had a way to acquire them I was like forget everything else so it's like you want to just like sake through that and a lot of times that's where this massive unlock happens in businesses like in most businesses go through this because you start throwing stuff on the wall you start selling stuff you start looking at the customers you have and then you're like huh I'm really good at these people I suck at these people these ones are okay and then you start making your delivery you make a decision strategically to say no to this money and this is where people can't do it this is why everyone fails they can't say no to money so you have to say no so when the 41st person comes on the phone with you and it's like hey dude I like really need this like I'd love to have a way to you know make money online or whatever you're like you should just watch for most these videos for free and then start a business and when you have a business call me okay so like I know my I mean what I'm what I'm best at is the acquisition fulfillment and the operations of existing agencies like my two best clients your course away for the money people give it away for free okay give it away for free it'll me and then you'll be like look I've had 40 people pay me whatever they sold you know you paid it's like and I just want to overd deliver in value and I'll give it to you for free and so use it because I really just want to work better with agency owners because the 0o to one stuff you can just just do it just do the work it's not that hard once like that way you can self proove that you're legit and then I will tell help you scale it from there and then like tangible items to like actually Sunset them like what does that even look like how long was the sale for the 40 how long did you sell them for was the duration it was like I was starting off it was like an inner circle just like 6K like Lifetime right so this is the problem with lifetime deals yeah you have a onetime onetime income with a forever delivery um like right so the the real real the ethical way to do it refund I think pull the rug refund so if I make the decision just hard conversation refund Integrity restore that's going to suck but okay how many of them are what's up how many 40 I am send them to someone else maybe but wait are they still how long has it been it's been like two months oh okay I mean I would like this is the like this is the tough part you know like you either I mean the alternative is you like the thing the thing I don't like cuz if you had said it's a 12we program then i' would have been like fine live it out like finish it out but you're like lifetime you're just going to these people forever ask months in yeah yeah cuz that's at least going to be 12 months you got 10 months so you got to trade off like you could probably get away with it if it had been a year yeah but you were only just starting yeah to go all in on school I had to re I had a calculation of how many of my Mastermind members I had to refund I had to refund $2 million to go all in on school that was losing 700 Grand a month how about that did he say losing yeah losing is it I refunded 2 million to focus on something that was losing 700 Grand a month damn why why I don't know RIS n it's worth it like if you do all the math it it was a Nob brainer yeah PA steal yeah it's just you want to play in the big league I mean the things these are mistakes like people make mistakes in the beginning lifetime is easy to sell but just cuz you don't think about ramifications but saying no to money is always what yeah is the biggest thing that makes you like that after I did that I had a massive jump cuz I could focus on school right um and you know people offer me like a lot of money too to go and like speak in an event probably nowhere near as much as hosi but 100 Grand in first class flights you just say no no no no no no no no no then you don't even bother saying no you just don't even imply yeah and that if you don't have the discipline to do that then you'll get pulled in a million directions also when you feel that sting of the 240 Grand you have to give back it'll help you say no to everything else cuz you're like I just refunded all these people I'm definitely not going to mess that up now like I just spent all this money to to get this attention back like why would I mess it up yeah it does something too for your like personal power or something when you're say no to money you don't need it yeah you're like you show you it does something to you it gives you some kind of power there's no better feeling than turning money down I mean making money is also pretty good but especially with clients you don't like anymore yeah right I would prefer to never see you again here's your money yeah really I got like a little taste of it cuz I was like I'm like the gatekeeper of the main closer so if I didn't think I could coach the guy I'd be like no but refunding is a whole different kind of thing right there yeah totally but you'll feel super super convicted and when you get on the phone with people you'll be like this is for agency owners and I'll help you scale or whatever you know whatever you're good at and if you're not then you're like that's why I have this thing I used to sell it I'll just give it to you man just follow the steps realistically though you're probably not going to do it so at least this way you can save your eight grand which I probably could have sold you it's big conviction that's sick sweet I like I have the same thought as him cuz I have a a program called start and then scale but uh sell to the scale people if you're better at them and you like them better and they're worth more 100% um I did have a question if it's better offline that's cool how do you for instance like somebody joins at 30 gets to 200 how do you Market that testimonial without uh a financial claim so how can I actively share these stories so getting into the like nitty-gritty with FTC is beyond my scope but for the most part it comes down to timelines that's the thing that like most of these platforms hate it's like X in y time but if you just say x I did I thought about this quite a bit Yeah and I've noticed that the only people that ever get in trouble they did way worse [ __ ] than make a claim right cuz I know the people that got into trouble and I know what was going on and I'll tell you how it happens every single time yeah it's they don't give refunds their disputes go up they piss so many people off that enough complain to the attorney general that eventually so many complaints go to the attorney general that they investigate them and then they find everything like the first thing to go is always you get kicked off of stripe yeah way that's slate the canary and the comine no one that doesn't get kicked off stripe never they never get in trouble even if they're making wild claims on ads but then when these people get panged they've got to like say oh everyone's doing it everyone's breaking the rules because they're trying to show like that they're not a criminal yeah we just cross we just stepped on this Little Rock the the refunds thing is Bar None for sure like I there was a guy I'm sure we both know him but who um who got dinged by the FTC ding's a very nice way of saying it um and I knew for like I I I was in a room like this cuz I was was in the back room and he was speaking at the same thing as me so like kind of funny um and he was like how do you guys like stop all these chargebacks and I was I was like what he was like yeah all these people like they're just these [ __ ] are charging back and I was like well I mean I was like we don't have we just refund people if they ask for it he's like oh no we don't do refunds I was like I mean at all he's like we say no refunds I was like but you you you actually don't give any refunds he was like oh no I also I mean Sam said this I think like three ago and I just love this it's like you don't want to become someone's project like you don't want someone waking up thinking like how can I destroy shark today like how can I ruin this guy's life cuz cuz that six grand was the last six grand he had and it meant a hell of a lot more to him than it does to you so just give it it means more to him back just go get another customer bro it's always worth it you just give him the money back and they come back too like we noticed that they a lot of people come back when you didn't make a big deal about it or they'll buy something else yeah cuz you know what it's like your self you buy something you ask for refund you're like how's hard's this going to be and if it's easy you're like damn I'm I I like this company right yep so Planet Fitness believe it or not I obviously a fitness example CU I know a lot of the the big businesses there but Planet Fitness figured this out which is so you might not know this but a Planet Fitness to make money has to have 10,000 members like a brick and mo has to have 10,000 members to to make money and they still crank and they can do that in a market that only has 50,000 people in total which is insane to think about but they don't have like zero turn they have like five % monthly turn which is you're like wait a second how would you do that they cycle through the entire town over and over and over again and so what they figured out was rather than being like the dicks on the way out they said they call the friendly goodbye and so it's like they they're like oh you want to cancel no problem Steve no worries let us know when you're you know when you're want to come back like we we'll get you going like very friendly on the exit and so then Steve when he like gets the next gig or gets to the next job or feels fat again or whatever it is he signs back up because it was no big deal it's also crazy how many people don't actually use the membership they like pay for it and then oh 92% don't use the membership yeah it's the only it's the only way the business model works if they did they'd have to charge $200 a month it yeah wouldn't be room yeah I mean the reason micro Jims are priced that way is because people use the membership it's the same SC footage so like like the worst thing that and so like I mean I can talk about planus Fitness but I'll stop how would you choose between the friendly good and then the one that he mentioned where it's like if you leave you have to pay the entry fee to come back those are different one is a refund one is like someone trying to cancel which I see is separate things one's saying hey I want to cancel your service one is like I hate you please give me my money back it's not very friendly to say you can't come back ever again and it's also not really true I think cuz someone can just make another account how are you going to know well for high ticket I can imagine but like I just whatever I mean I've all the the people that I know who have done it and don't have good communities it does nothing if you have a great Community then it matters but then doesn't matter at all because the great Community is the reason that it happened so tldr I don't know if the tactic does anything remember I had this on a way smaller scale it was like my second clo like 10K I was all excited and he he's on the coaching call and he just wouldn't knock on doors he said he tried it for 30 minutes CU one thing he teach is door to door marketing to book jobs so I was really hesitant on what to do and I he just bring down the energy so I let him out of the group I refunded him and then I posted in my free Facebook group hey had a client wasn't really ready to knock on doors you know if any of you guys are are actually willing to do this we have a spot open and it brought my ideal clients actually B close four off. post you're like in every week you're like I had I had a spot open up because yeah no mean being telling the truth yeah I got I got one question about like um I've heard you guys talk about like offboarding interviews or like you know like taking you know somebody wants to you know wants to cancel their membership or wants to ref refund you're like yeah for sure just do an interview right is there any way we could maybe get that going on in school like whenever somebody churns like obviously like it's hard to get them on the phone right you know at that point um but I'd love to like figure out maybe that at some point like oh yeah you want to cancel cool press this button schedule an appointment after we talk I think they have to be able to cancel easily but I think yeah they have to be able to cancel easily but I think you could encourage them to take a call after the cancellation try and resell them could we do a zapier integration for the cancellation this is we were just thinking an auto an auto DM would probably be the be Auto DM yeah I've noticed uh the zapier integration the zapier integration feature on School Is Amazing by the way but um we started doing this in one of our communities where people join and we immediately send them like a welcome call and then we just like immediately upsell them it does really well are the new customers Z yeah oh yeah that crushes just for everybody by the way if you if you let people come in and just give them an onboarding call it's I mean think about what an onboarding call really is it's like what are your goals what have you struggled with where are you at currently what do you like why haven't you succeeded so far oh I think we might have some things for you it's just like it just lends itself naturally to a sales call and you can do in autod DM as well if you have a strong referral offer can put it into autod DM when they join and like who else do you know blah blah blah you'll get this if you refer somebody so that you know you set it up once and you can have literally like extra 10% for free if you have a strong referral offer and once they affiliate things it'll be even more just going back on that single stream or yeah um what you're good at one thing we have is we have that physical Academy so um what I was one of my questions earlier was about how would you integrate School platform into the physical you know what just random thoughts um but then because I think our the school academy has done by far you know mostly yeah better than physical um what are your thoughts on integrating ditching I don't I mean I think the in-person members joining I mean you could if you want to give a a a gift to the in-person members you could actually I don't know if they can have a different membership so no um they probably just join like anybody else would and it would just be a benefit to them to because they know you in person is the digital already making more money yeah the the P academ do kind of like how we're doing this and school HQ so we've got homos HQ we've got school HQ for the power users in the online world we bring it offline and we let them come in like this and that can produce content back for the like online so you use it as a a reward yeah yeah you can either like you can charge for it or you can use it as a reward for like what we do here right we're not charge for it but it's it's a reward but you Absolut like as a side note if you wanted to make even more like if you wanted the inperson to generate more money and leveraged kind of like both together give them an offer to have a weekend with you I mean like when I had the you have it's not it's martial arts right yeah so I would do like weekend workshops where I'd be like we're going to do a deadlift um you know prr we're going to do the big three lifts for powerlifting this weekend so anybody wants to come to that cool I do like big booty boot camp for girls and they always want I teach them like eight different like moves for butt stuff because they always want to noteb stuff I would do um I would basically just bring in Specialists for stuff and then I would either and I would just Market CR to my community and say that they could pay you know a grand or two grand or something for the for the weekend I mean you'll know the price point better than me but Pro I mean you could probably get away with between $300 and $2,000 in terms of two days um for them to to come in and you spend two days with them and you get a ton of footage you literally make money for it you can get ads for your local gym you can get ads for online all from that one event I actually think it's a huge advantage that you have the inperson component because you can do stuff that no one else can do level seven in school Community is visit School HQ the the prize like once you get to level seven in school Community you get to visit School HQ that's cool and then in the games it's get in the top 10 and you get to come to a MOS HQ it's the best prize on both leaderboards it it creates this cuz in the digital world everything seems kind of fake so if there's some HQ that people get to visit and you start to see photos of this play it gives people like something they can visualize like I can eventually go there right and it works really well and you can use it in your marketing and and all of this I can guarantee you that if you make a post in your community saying that you're doing a workshop that you're limiting to 30 people how many people do you have in your community free ones well the paid one paid one 23 yeah so um I mean you could do it on the free one if you wanted to cuz then you could just sell them at the event if you felt like it but but I think it makes more sense to do it to the paid one and just do a higher ticket thing from the paid and um so if you have 23 that's perfect so that'll probably you'll probably get like 30ish people who'd be willing to do it and so do you 30 you know between 300 maybe I mean it's meditation like 300 to a grand probably feels about right you can pick the price you can start low on the first one and move it up if you want to if it's like people are like that was amazing blah blah blah blah blah um it's like you can just do that like once a quarter so every 12 weeks or so and just like that you can pop an extra like 80 or 100 Grand a year in like and but like you're not just doing it for money you get all the other stuff

3 Hours of Money Making Advice You Needed To Know Yesterday

Summary

Video

How To Take Action

Implementing Strategies for Small Businesses, Entrepreneurs, and Personal Growth Seekers

Quotes by Alex Hormozi

"How many do you know how many searches a day we get on school"

"Kind of gave up but he was making like $500 a month and we got him to $10,900 this month"

"Five places to put one link free Instagram bio free Group Facebook profile a pieces of content"

"Because a free community if you've got content and then you're promising a free community conversion rates are through the roow it's the most efficient mechanism to convert"

"The difference between value post and valuable post is that; the quote value posts are like here are six things"

Full Transcript

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Links

Summary

Video

How To Take Action

Implementing Strategies for Small Businesses, Entrepreneurs, and Personal Growth Seekers

Quotes by Alex Hormozi

"How many do you know how many searches a day we get on school"

"Kind of gave up but he was making like $500 a month and we got him to $10,900 this month"

"Five places to put one link free Instagram bio free Group Facebook profile a pieces of content"

"Because a free community if you've got content and then you're promising a free community conversion rates are through the roow it's the most efficient mechanism to convert"

"The difference between value post and valuable post is that; the quote value posts are like here are six things"

Full Transcript

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