How to have HARD CONVERSATIONS with employees. My 6 STEP FORMULA

Summary

• The ability to have hard conversations is crucial for anyone in a leadership role and is a skill that must be learned and practiced, not something inherent at birth.
• Expect to feel anxious or emotional before, during, and after hard conversations; it's a normal response.
• Avoiding hard conversations can lead to long-term dysfunction in a business, so it's essential to prioritize addressing issues despite the discomfort.
• The conversations that are the most challenging to have are usually not about clear performance indicators but about less tangible, emotional issues related to behavior or attitude.
• Use the six "E's" as a framework for having hard conversations:
  • Establish the tone of the conversation right at the beginning to set the proper expectations.
  • Eliminate assumptions so that there's no uncertainty about the conversation's gravity.
  • Explain the goal of the conversation and what you hope to achieve by the end.
  • Explain the origin of the problem, even if it's based on intuition or non-quantifiable feedback.
  • Emphasize the impact of the problem on the team or company to underline its significance.
  • Estimate the severity of the issue to provide clarity on how urgent or serious the matter is.
• After laying the groundwork with the six "E's," enter the second part of the conversation using the four "A's":
  • Ask for the other person's thoughts to gauge their response and willingness to engage.
  • Advise on the steps to take to rectify the situation, offering clear guidance and support.
  • Agree on a plan of action and set the frequency of follow-up meetings to ensure accountability.
  • Assure the individual of their current standing, ending the conversation with a clear understanding of where things lie.
• If a hard conversation makes you feel anxious:
  • Allow more time between deciding to have the talk and actually having it if you're experiencing strong emotions.
  • Write down what you want to say using the framework to organize your thoughts and ensure you cover all necessary points.
  • Consider recording the conversation for self-review or feedback from a trusted colleague to improve future communication skills.
• Improving communication is vital for business growth, and hard conversations should be viewed as an opportunity for development and clarity.

Video

How To Take Action

I would suggest practicing how to have difficult conversations by learning the six "E's" and four "A's" framework as a starting point. Here's how you can apply it to your own tough talks:

1. Establish the tone: Begin your conversation with a clear intent. If it's serious, be direct and skip small talk. This sets the right expectations.

2. Eliminate assumptions: Make it clear if jobs are at risk or not to prevent misunderstandings and allow everyone to focus on the issue.

3. Explain the goal: State what you want to achieve with this conversation, so both parties understand the desired outcome.

4. Explain the origin of the problem: Be honest about where your concerns are coming from, even if it's just a gut feeling.

5. Emphasize the impact: Describe how the issue affects the team or company to highlight why it matters.

6. Estimate the severity: Give a rating to the seriousness of the issue so the other person knows how urgent or important it is.

After laying this groundwork:

1. Ask for the other person's thoughts: Encourage feedback and assess whether they are defensive or open to change.

2. Advise on the steps needed: Offer a plan to address the problem, providing clear guidance and support.

3. Agree on a plan of action: Set a follow-up schedule to ensure accountability for any agreed-upon steps.

4. Assure their standing: End the conversation with clarity on their position and what is expected going forward.

If feeling anxious:

• Allow time between deciding to talk and having the conversation if emotions are high.
• Write down your talking points using the six "E's" and four "A's" to organize thoughts.
• Consider recording the conversation for self-review or ask a colleague to listen and provide feedback.

Remember, difficult conversations are opportunities for growth and clarity which can significantly benefit personal development and business success.

Quotes by Leila Hormozi

"The gap between where you are and where you want to be in your business is the amount of hard conversations you're willing to have"

– Leila Hormozi

"It is the most valuable skill that I have currently"

– Leila Hormozi

"It is a muscle, you can practice it as a skill"

– Leila Hormozi

"There's a difference between short-term discomfort and long-term harm"

– Leila Hormozi

"Communication is the only reason most businesses don't grow"

– Leila Hormozi

Full Transcript

tim ferriss once said that i think it was something to the extent of the gap between where you are and where you want to be in your business is the amount of hard conversations you're willing to have and so that is why this video is about hard conversations um i believe that it is probably the number one skill that anyone can have as a ceo or as a business owner um or even as an executive or an operator of a company and i also believe that it is the most valuable skill that i have currently and so this is the first of many videos that i want to make on having hard conversations because it is the thing that is most asked of me um and is actually right now in the position i'm in in the company where i still add the most value is being able to have those tactful hard conversations with people what i want to start off by saying is that this is a complete like this is a skill this is not something that you were born with nobody's naturally going to have having hard conversations every single person feels like they're going to poop themselves when they feel like they have to have a hard conversation like that is naturally how people feel some people just started really early maybe in childhood some people started when they're a teenager some people have never had them and now they have a business and they have to that's the first thing i want to say is that it is not something that comes natural in fact i can tell you the first time i had to have a hard conversation um was when i had to fire somebody who's actually my friend having that conversation i remember building up to it i one i almost threw up uh two is like my throat was constricted like my hands were swelling like my body was just going crazy and then after i had the hard conversation i bawled my eyes out and so i don't know if i'm supposed to say that or not but it's the truth like i felt terrible um and i think i did really well in the conversation but it just was like almost an emotional release after like there was so much tension built up and i really wanted to do a good job and so i just want to start off by saying it's completely normal um and expected it is expected that you feel crappy about having them most people have trouble sleeping the night before that before they have a hard conversation like that doesn't mean you shouldn't have it it means that you should just get better at it and over time it gets less and less and like then eventually one day you only get anxious like five minutes before the conversation it is a muscle you can practice it as a skill it doesn't matter what kind of personality you are introvert extrovert you know eng whatever like i don't care doesn't matter what your disk is like you can get good at this i just want to embed that in you because i was not somebody who was good at having confrontational conversations five years later it is my most valuable skill set for this company so that's the first thing i want to say the second thing to start before i go into the framework for this is that you have to understand that there's a difference between uh short-term discomfort and long-term harm what a lot of people correlate having a hard conversation with is hurting someone's feelings hurting someone in some way they're going to react adversely and the irony to this is that yes most people do most humans react in a way that is uncontrolled when news that they are not aware of is brought to them however in the long term if you avoid the conversation you create long-term dysfunction whether it's in the role in the company across departments so that's why it's very important to delineate against this it is totally fine to have short-term discomfort meaning you've kind of hurt someone's feelings they feel kind of shitty they seem down you know those might be short-term side effects to avoid the long-term dysfunction of having someone who is incompetent in their role having people who don't work well together having a cultural disconnect okay that's the first piece now before i go into the framework um what i want to explain is that once you understand those pieces and you're like cool so it's not natural to have hard conversations and it's important to have them because if i don't it'll create long-term dysfunction in my company you have to understand that before you go into the framework i'm about to teach you you have to identify the problem and so a lot of people have difficulty doing this because the problems that are often hardest to talk about are the problems that are not black and white and they're not easy to objectively put onto paper meaning they're usually emotional problems they're usually that someone's acting a certain way they're behaving a certain way it doesn't have to do so much with hey you've missed x amount of weeks of sales right that's an easier conversation typically to have maybe it's not for you maybe in the beginning but typically that becomes easier it's like this the kpi you're not meeting the kpi it's like it's on paper right you're like uh i don't know say i hired you for that you had to hit those kpis you're not doing it it kind of is what it is right it's easy to see on both sides versus having a conversation about someone's attitude how they talk to other people how they dress at work um their behavior around others how they work as a team player that kind of stuff is because it's more intangible it seems like more people avoid those conversations and what i want to explain is that 90 of the hard conversations are about that stuff it's about the messy stuff and so you have to get good at talking about that stuff because the performance pieces are almost like icing on the cake like you get if you can do these you can definitely do that what i want to go into is the framework that i put together um to go over these conversations and have them effectively and the reason that it's it's going to be like a little longer than i would i would have wanted to because you know people only watch x-men on youtube but it is very necessary because these conversations like i said it's the most valuable skill set i bring to my company right my three companies doing almost 100 million and it is the most valuable skill and so this is the first of many videos um but it is the framework that i use and this is the most concise i can get this framework so here we go part one we've got the six e's okay what i wanna explain is part one is the first part of the conversation before you let the other person speak part two is after you open it up for them to speak okay so this is how you're gonna start off the conversation the first thing you're gonna do is establish tone okay and when i say establish tone what i mean is how you essentially break the ice in the conversation okay so when you go into that call or you step into that meeting what's the first thing that you say do you ask them about their weekend maybe if it's not a very serious conversation you have time to ask about their weekend it's not something that they need to take incredibly seriously and maybe it's not uh out of the blue like you just have to remind them to be on time to something right that would be a less serious conversation so you might start off saying like hey i've got a couple things i want to talk to you about today but i just want to know like how's your weekend how the kids how's mary doing right you can just like start it off like a little more casual versus if it's a serious conversation you might start it off like hey i've got something kind of serious i need to talk to you about today and so i don't really have time to go over some of the items we normally would in this call and so we're just gonna get straight to it and then they're like oh and they're listening to you now they're like really listening the second thing you're gonna do is eliminate assumptions okay and i don't mean just bad assumptions i mean any kind of assumption so say the conversation is one where you are 99 sure they're going to take the conversation very well and that it's not a huge issue it's just something you need to point out right it's like once they are aware you are sure they will change their behavior you might start off with something like hey i just want to tell you like i don't know if i you know i feel like i don't need to say this but i'm going to say it anyways which is like your job's not on the line i'm not firing you today i just have a few things where i feel like you need to improve um and i want to explain those to you today that's it versus if it is a serious conversation and you do feel like their job is online you're going to start off and say hey i have to tell you this is a really serious conversation we're about to have your job is actually on the line and so i really need you to pay attention today eliminate the assumptions there's no assumption they now understand ironically this actually makes people feel better because they like predictability they don't want to hear because they're just waiting especially if it's a hard conversation for the ball to drop like are they going to fire me like it could come at any point in the conversation and if you just eliminate and address is that happening or not it completely like allows them to listen and be present in the conversation the third piece is you're gonna explain the goal right and so it's like listen the goal of this conversation is that when we come out we're on the same page about what i expect out of a leader on this team especially in your position and that we have a plan that we can hold each other accountable to to make sure that you can improve from here on out or it could be like hey uh the goal of this conversation is that you understand how serious of a problem this is and that i don't have to have this conversation with you again because it's that serious different goals fourth piece is explain the problem origin right because people always want to know when there's an issue where did it come from oftentimes people have a difficult time explaining this because it will come from a gut feeling like if you're an intuitive leader and you really understand your people and you know them well often you're gonna like wake up in the middle of the night and like have a feeling or like think about it when you're going to bed or like you're with your wife on a date and you're like why am i thinking about this mopo right and that's where it comes from so oftentimes i've had them where i'm like hey actually i woke up at 3am last night and i was thinking about you and so i was like yeah i need to have this conversation it's definitely something that's on my mind or it might be hey i got feedback from multiple people on the team that i really need to talk to you about because i see a trend fifth piece is you're going to emphasize the impact right so say the problem is that you have negative feedback from their team about how they feel like they're being micromanaged i would say as you can see this is a problem because the kind of leadership that we expect in this company based on our core tenants is one that doesn't micromanage right we like to encourage autonomy on the team and so them feeling this way puts them at risk of leaving right so we're actually at risk of your whole team saying see ya because they don't like you as a leader and that's why this is an important thing for us to discuss and then the last piece is you want to estimate the severity okay and so what i like to tell people at the end is i'm like listen i would say like a scale of one to ten like one is like you know you're late on a meeting or you're clearly slacking somebody on a meeting versus ten being like you're like really on the cutting edge and you're very close to being fired we're at like a two right now it's very bothersome and it's annoying but i really feel like we can fix it like that versus i might be like listen i have to be honest with you this is like flashing red eight out of ten we need to fix this today okay so once you've done this you've established the tone you've eliminated the assumption explain the goal explain the problem origin emphasize the impact estimate the severity you're going to go into part two which is the four a's okay first thing you're gonna do this is where the break in the conversation happens you're gonna ask you'll be like i'd love to know your thoughts on everything i just told you or you can say you know i just like to ask um what do you think of everything i just said and that's when you're going to see if that person goes into defense mode or if they go into coachability mode as i like to call it which is essentially are they like coachability is like ah crap like i totally didn't know i was doing that or like i feel like i was doing a bad job there and i totally know i was dropping the ball but i was just like kind of waiting for you to point it out or like i don't know how to fix it versus i don't agree with you i don't think you're right i think i'm right i there's all these reasons why i'm doing this that you should hear right lots of excuses and so that's where the conversation a lot of times can be spent in this ask because you need to listen to them okay and now you don't want to let someone go off on a tangent or emotionally like i don't know how to put this like vomit on you um i don't allow that i'm like i'm not gonna allow you to emotionally vomit on me we're trying to have a productive conversation right because some people try and do that but this might take anywhere from 10 to 25 minutes depending on how the person uh responds what you've just said all right so once you've asked them for their insight and what they think then you're going to advise them on what to do next you're going to say basically like this is what i think you should do to resolve the issue right and if somebody was very receptive then this is something that you also spend a decent time on because they're going to ask a lot of questions they're going to be okay cool like how do you think i can make it right with so and so and like what how do i have that conversation etc etc versus um if it's somebody who's very defensive they might just be completely silent and just nod which is often what i've noticed happens the third piece of this is agree upon your cadence going forward and the plan of action okay so what i mean is that after you've gone through this you've suggested what they need to do then you're gonna say cool all right so you're going to blank blank and blank and then what i'm going to do is i'm going to check in with you twice a week instead of once every other week for the next six weeks until we feel like you've you know moved past this problem does that sound good cool so we agree upon the plan of action and the cadence that we have to have going forward because the biggest place that you play as a leader uh in making this making sure this doesn't happen again isn't holding them accountable to what they've said they're going to do and the plan of action and constantly letting them know in faster increments if they're doing better or if they're not and then the last piece of that is you're going to assure them of where they stand right and so i'm always going to wrap up the conversation kind of with the same tone i started it with is could be like hey i'm really glad you took it well great conversation i don't think we need to talk about this again so we actually don't need to set a plan going forward because it seems pretty quick um i appreciate you being really open-minded to this or it might be hey um unfortunately this conversation did not go as i expected um you were much more defensive than i had hoped and so because of that we are going to have multiple more conversations about this and until this is resolved your job is at threat that's it right and so if you follow this framework i promise you the conversation will be much more productive and it will be clear meaning the person who you are having it with understands where they stand by the end of it right all of this is to provide clarity what i would say is that if if this makes you feel anxious having these conversations and if right now if you're thinking about all the conversations that you need to have maybe you've kind of backlogged it you've got like conversation debt which is pretty typical in um business owners is that you kind of realize you watch a video like this like crap i have like four conversations i need to have there's three things i would suggest that you do okay one is if you are nervous about this and you have a lot of heightened emotions around a conversation the first thing i would say is before you go into it put some time between thinking about it and doing it meaning lengthen the amount of time um before you have the conversation that's not usually something i would suggest but if you're really emotional like it doesn't matter how well you structure this if you go into it very angry frustrated or anxious they will feel that and it will just deter you from making any progress from the conversation the second thing i would say is that you should write down what you're going to say using that framework before you say it right so i would say like rewind this video write down those a's and then like right underneath of them what you're going to do in accordance with those and then rehearse it right and the reason that it's so important to rehearse something like this is because um communication is the only reason most businesses don't grow and that's my true belief um and most people don't take the time to be that thoughtful in their communication which is why their businesses don't get as big as they want them to or they get really big and then they crash because there was no infrastructure built on trust and so i would highly suggest that you write it down and you rehearse it ahead of time especially because if you do rehearse it ahead of time you're in a non-emotional state and that can then carry over to when you are a little bit more heightened and you're talking that person so hopefully you can remain a little more steady the third thing i would suggest is that you record the conversation okay and so this is my favorite piece of it because i ask people to do this a lot in our company and then i'm like cool send it to me after i'll give you feedback right but i do this with myself too and here's the reason it's like watching game tape review uh like if you've heard uh there's a book what was it tim grover maybe he talked about like jlo and michael jordan after every game whether they won or lost they watched the game tape because they want to see like if i won why did i win if i lost why did i lose and so a lot of people will watch content before they post it or after they post it right or they'll watch a speech up and give a speech the same goes with having a hard conversation if you want to get better at this which i would suggest anyone who owns a business should or operates and manages people then it is really important that you actually watch it and then give yourself feedback um you could also like send it to a colleague or to a friend who you think is good at this to give their feedback as well i hope this framework was useful um it took me a long time to really think like what do i actually do to have these conversations and to put it into writing take it go back screenshot the video print it out maybe and use it for the next time that you have to have one and so if you liked this i am going to make a good amount more conversation videos because i think that it's a skill that most people don't put enough time into and it yields a much higher roi for leaders than anyone would expect um so go ahead hit the subscribe and we'll see you on the next one